VANCOUVER ISLAND WINDTALK

Been here before... How can you compare a multi-milliion dollar maintenance and operation, 24/7 activities with slope grooming and detachable quads, buildings, bars, paved road, snow clearing daily to a couple of outhouses and picnic tables for services?

I find it hard to believe you people aren't getting this

IT's like the GST, it'll NEVER go away again, for your time and your kids. It's like the first overnight fees following the voluntary annual membership with the Society. It's like the parking meters at Sombrio, CLUE IN "You still have to pay for gas...." Yeah, true enough. Gas is $1.19, I paid $.63 in Abbotsford a year ago...ah, but that's no big deal I'll just pay it and then when I get to the lake I'll just pay some more....no big deal

And when you guys come to Victoria to sail, I'll be here running around at Kook Street or IV collecting five bucks from ya, nah make that $10 with a big scowl on my face....yer parking in my city afterall...and, gee, it's really a great sailing site and what would you pay if ya flew around the world in a learjet, it's cheap compared to THAT

KUS wrote:IT's like the GST, it'll NEVER go away again, for your time and your kids. It's like the first overnight fees following the voluntary annual membership with the Society. It's like the parking meters at Sombrio, CLUE IN "You still have to pay for gas...." Yeah, true enough. Gas is $1.19, I paid $.63 in Abbotsford a year ago...ah, but that's no big deal I'll just pay it and then when I get the lake I'll just pay some more....no big deal :

Ok, I will bite. I agree with Kus. Day use fees are bad news. We already pay taxes. They are easy to implement and hard to get rid of. Again, although Nitnat is great, there are plenty of other viable alternatives for summer sailing. You also have to factor in vechile repairs etc.

OK, I haven't sailed the Gorge, but its my understanding that several of the most popular launches have pay parking. THere was a thread on pay parking at launches a while ago on rec.windsurfing. The situation is literally all over the map -- some of the places you'd expect to pay for day use are actually free, with change rooms, hot water showers available, etc, others have nothing except a parking spot for an exorbitant amount.

The problem with Nitinat is that it is being loved to death, and without some type of income, little managment/fixing can be done (although with volunteers and a Society, it worked very well).

There is the other problem of people claiming to be day sailing to avoid the overnight fee - which is still only $10, not as I remembered earlier. I think the fact everyone needs to pay something reduces the problems people collecting the fees might have.

I don't like paying day use fees either, and in combination with the cost of gas I won't be making as many trips to Nitinat this year. But change is going to happen. All the windsurfers/kiters at the MoTourism meeting at Duncan were OK with the idea of a small day use fee. Kus, sorry I didn't know your position on it then, I would have put it forward in the meeting.

If you pay, you get to demand some service - like clean washrooms with TP, and an actual spot to park. If I have to unload near the beach then park up on the access road, I think I may refuse the $5.

. hell why not whore the lake out, sailors spotting whitecaps are like a bunch of crackheads... look its blowing 25, looks like the "day use fee" just went up ..

sure its the thin edge of the wedge but what can you do. i probably spent a grand or more on gear last year, I can support your little campground now just keep it clean and safe is all i ask. Maybe when buddy at the east end of the lake gets his operation running there will be some choice as to who gets your dollar.

That is a part of the problem, with fees, there comes more regulation--is this what we want? I for one, will wait to see if things change, however, past exsperience over the last 2 years has shown that service and collection issues are haphazard at best. If all the fees had have been collected last year, there would be no need for incresed/additional fees. Collection was inconsistant at best with literally thousands of dollars never collected.

Collect the overnight fees on a consistent basis, fullfill the service obligations and everyone will be happy and the costs will be contained.

Camp fees were collected on the weekend by 2 friendly guys with official ticket books, and a "STAFF" dididhat shirt on. They gave out a receipt.
The outhouses appear to have been pumped, and they were to move the picicnc tables in today/morrow after falling/limbing a whole bunch of trees near the beach. they also filled in the mudhole at teh sw side of the campsite.

When I first went to Nitinat in 86' the forest company responsible (?!) was thinking of logging the campsite due to lack of use !!! We've come a long way. I thank everyone who has lobbied/worked to keep our Nitinat access possible.

Just to set the record straight, I like Nitnat(alot) and do respect the people(alot) in the area. I was commenting and agreeing with Kus that once implemented it is hard to get rid of fees/taxes. Again, if the fee schedule that has been in place for the last 2 years had have bben collected consistantly, there would be no need for additional fees, as the collected fees would have covered the costof campsite maintenance. Also, 2 years ago, the Windsurfing Society had to organize and coverthe cost, of getting the toilets pumped out because they were a mess. My main statement is that if fees are collected, then they should go towards the maintenance of the site. If we do our bit by paying, then it is expected that whoever is running the site also fullfills their end of the bargain.

I have always paid my fees when asked(without a hassle). I want the site to be self sustaining(and a success), that way it will be around for the future. Hopefully this year it will achieve that status. Ther is no need to nickle and dime us just because we like Nitinat.

For those of you that are heckling the collection of fees and say that the money should goto the maintenance, well they are. I have been out and about for most of the spring (since March) and there has been alot of work going on within the park with further plans still to come. So far I have noticed these things:

1. Road around the circle has been upgraded, mudholes filled with gravel and leveled.
2. New parking areas and several new camping spots created on the inner side of the park area.
3. Old piles of debris from last years flood removed or piled and burnt
4. Toilets have been cleaned on a regular basis, restocked with tissue and have been pumped out in anticipation of a busy season.
5. People collecting properly identified with shirts indicating they are staff and issuing proper reciepts. All have been friendly and approachable
6. Hazard trees fallen
7. Numberous trees dead limbed to minimize potential injury.
8. Picinic tables placed throughout the campground ready for may long weekend.

Now all this was done before the May long weekend in anticiapation for a busy season and it all cost money, so for those of you wondering about where the fees go, these are some examples that I have personally either seen or been involved in.

I can appreciate those that have concerns about the value of their experience and "money grabs", but before you begin to make comments like "I have seen this before" etc etc, can I suggest you do a little research before condemning this new group to the shortfalls and errors of previous management groups.

KSD or just Dale

Hi Dale- thank you for answering some of the questions, much appreciated! Perhaps though you will agree, upon further reflection, that it is not usually up to user groups to do research but management groups to communicate with a plan to key user groups. (BTW my "been here before" was related to comparing Nitinat to a world class ski resort).

There is little to indicate to users that this is a "new management group", (albeit a different name it is still run/steered by band membership, is it not?) however given the benefit of a fresh start, regardless of how superior the works of the new group are perhaps a gradual effort that is consistent is advisable over throwing many resources at a very, very early part of the season. The pumping of what were apparently near empty outhouses would indicate some misplaced enthusiasm, but I digress

In any event let me restate that I personally, for whatever that's worth, oppose any day-use fees vehemently I do know I am not alone in this. We, the majority, have learned to live with overnight fees, however grudgingly, but have always had the lake's future at our hearts and want to see good work in the park done for the money.
Day-use fees are not something that only impacts Nitinat and certainly shouldn't be pulled out of a hat come people arriving at the site. At the very least until a proper consultation and communication of this particular issue is done, monies should be refunded to those not in the know on that first weekend.

I would expect cash flow problems cleaning house after years of neglect and mediocre management and don't think this can be expected to be recovered in one season. A plan for steady improvement must be the agenda which at the same time allows free park access to all taxpayers in BC/Canada for day use, not just those with means.
I for one am willing, as always, to lend a hand once I see an identified plan noting covered core services distinctly apart from a list of nice-to have-projects which can only be achieved through volunteer partnership.

Day-User Fees are NOT the Answer, just look south of the border There are many other ways to address overnighters not paying. There are also many other potential sources of revenue generation that have not been explored! After 20 seasons at Nitinat actively caring for and loving the place through acts of maintenance and environmental stewartship as some others have, I stand by my views.

Just got back from Nitinat. Dale is right on. Someone has put a lot of work into the campground. They have been working for a few days to get all the picnic tables back into place and Dale et al. were pruning dead branches and removing a couple of dead trees on Wednesday. Dorthy came to collect fees. She's all business and very friendly. The outhouses are cleaned and there was lots of TP. Weather was great and the wind arrived every day at 10:30am and left at 6pm. After the TOW sat on the beach in the warm sun with a beer and nachos and enjoyed the peace and quiet! Best $10 I ever spent!

PS: Was told that a tree expert surveyed the campground, marked trees that were dangerous (rotten) with blue tags and numbered disks and also marked trees with dead branches that were a falling hazard. To assist the crew he generated a computer map of the campground and all the trees and keyed it to the markers. Apparently, some dork removed all the markers so the crew had to guess which trees were to be worked on!

The work that has been done sounds great, Dale. One of my personal concerns is dealing with late night partyers, and drunken drive by cars. Is anything going to be done to improve that situation this year?

Stephen (with 2 small kids in tow out there)

Hey Kus,

I don't begrudge your position at all, and frankly respect the fact you stand by your position. I agree that a long term "work plan" to gradually improve park services would be ideal. As for the management group communicating with the public, there has been some action on that, I am refering to the meeting in Duncan that occured last month. I cannot comment on the connection between the Nitinaht Emerg. Services managing the park and band council participation, I do not know what the arrangement there is.

As for the Late night partying and all that, the is a full time R.C.M.P. presence in Nitinaht now, and one of the nitinaht emerg. services members is the first nations constable (R.C.M.P.) (I don't know his official title) so I believe as long as people take the responsiblity to notify the proper authorities or staff, then the issue of excessive noise and yahoooing should be addressed. I am not sure, but I believe that action cannot be taken until complaints are lodged, clarification on the laws might be a good idea. Anybody know?

You know, if anybody does have concerns and questions, while expressing them in this forum is great and certainly opens it to discussion and others point of view, really they should be addressed/emailed to Nitinaht Emerg. Services, the email link is in several topic forums. This way, not only do the management team get a good idea of the user groups concerns and questions but it would also give them the opportunity to respond or address these issues. I don't think it would be safe to assume that they are monitoring these forums.

Hope all have a great long weekend, I myself will be out at nitinaht hopefully sailing and helping set up the sauna with Ean

Tempy - I did bring the security issue up at the meeting. Sounds like it will be a lot better this year.

I had an incident several years ago now where I woke in the night with a car pulled up to a foot or two from the pup tent my sons, about 14 and 16 at the time, were sleeping in. It idled for a moment, and as I sat up and fumbled to look out a window, the car went in gear and was floored, spewing gravel all over, but luckily the drunken driver was in reverse. If he'd put it in drive by mistake my kids would have been run over. They roared around the camp a couple of times then went to the beach at the other end of the camp to party some more. At the time there was no police presence except Lake Cowichan, and by the time it was over it was over anyway, there was nothing to do about it. Since that time I've always taken care to have my vehicle blocking the tents from the road. Haven't had another incident like it, but it was bloody scary at the time. The boys slept right through it.

I think the RCMP presence will reduce that sort of hooliganism way down - but I'd advise anyone tenting to place your tent/vehicle to ensure you can't be run over, just as a basic safety precaution.

Will a yearly camping pass be available at Nitinat this year? Sure would help to work out a budget...