Right of way rules on water

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:31 am

"Voodmon: and since i'm still logged in..a note to the new kiter with the red cabrina kite, please take note ! on may 1st this year i will have been windsurfing for 28 years, 25 of those on short boards, please and i say please to all of you new kiters who sail or wish to kite at cook st, please please learn the rules of engagement, starting with basic maritime law, rules for kook st, right hand forward, starboard has right of way over left hand forward, same as windsurfing, person going out through waves has right of way over someone coming in, and don't ever try what you did today again, once, i notice, twice, i get a bit pissed, thrice....how did it feel me sailing that close to your head ? talk to the rest of the kite crew before you go out..i watched from the cliff today while some glory dude who kites on a black ocean rodeo rise with one arm extended,, he cut a turn with out even looking right in front of Jose, yes he saw it when he confronted Jose eye to eye,,,no excuses people...keep your eyes open, remember this...if too many people start getting hurt out there, THEY will shut us all down, but probably kites first. my 2 cents guys and gals...i believe i have the credentials to say what i have just said..just getting a bit more assertive as i get older...cheers all...more smileys "

Just thought I'd put Voodmon's topic up on this thread for discussion, since he makes a good point about following right of way rules. My feeling is that while we generally should be following these rules, sometimes common sense will tell you what to do regardless of the rules. For example, if someone is pinching up on port to clear the reef and you are on starboard and have some room to give, don't "cockblock" or force the person on port to turn around just because you have right of way. The same goes for for a wave that is jacking up. If you anticipate that someone is going to jump or rip that wave apart and you are simply going straight or have no interest in said wave, give the other sailor room to hit it and flash them a nice smile. This leads to much happiness and good vibes on the water. Anticipate other sailors' actions to avoid some of these situations. New sailors coming to a spot like Cook St. on a crowded day may want to watch how the traffic flow works a little bit as well as how windsurfers and kiters like to ride a local spot.

If you do get cut off, keep it friendly. If it keeps happening, a friendly reminder of the right of way rules given to the offending windsurfer/kiter may be useful. Sometimes we all get a little overstoked and miss another sailor in our blindspot (don't hide in someone's blindspot!) or forget to look before changing direction. If the person still hasn't learned the rules, next time they take a break on the beach and are distracted, secretly open the zipper on the back of their suit. A good cold flush might wake them up.

Lots of other examples will pop up on this thread, I'm sure, but let's share the love/stoke and keep smaller venues like Cook St. friendly and safe.

AC · Post by AC » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:38 pm

"WINDSURFERS HAVE The RIGHT OF WAY at kook st.
I don t mind.lol

Kite Kook · Post by **Kite Kook** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:01 pm

Good points, Windoctor.

BTW, Tony, in case you didn't figure this out yet, Tim was not referring to you, but to the dude on the RED Cabrinha, who I think is pretty new to the scene.

Pretty busy day down there yesterday. As an observer, it might help for those who are not into shredding the reef waves to go up or downwind. There was miles of empty ocean all around, and I noticed only a couple of kiters taking advantage of this.

See y'all on the water when it stops snowing

KUS · Post by **KUS** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:47 pm

There was again quite a bit of discussion about this. Most local windsurfers are pretty tuned into what kiters require and know to watch for the jump run-ups, lines in the water or near the launch areas, boards in the water etc. A couple of things that are perhaps new to those kiters who don't have a windsurfing background:

Wsurfers have a large blind spot. Yes, the sails are clear plastic, no, they are not windows and are difficult to see through. A sail is pretty easy to spot below you but a kiter in a black suit half covered by a wave is nearly invisible through the sail

Kiters can rip upwind and pinch in big winds quite nicely, can stop on one spot and turn right at the beach, Wsurfers must always keep moving, usually on broad reaches, are looking for a larger area to gybe in (NOT right at the beach in 6" of water), usually bear off to go into their turns and mostly turn downwind....so they are always looking for the kiter to turn and head out, not cut back over and over again below them, while pinching, leaving nowhere for the surfer to go (unless they know how to tack, which in turn will usually blow the kiter's mind above them

)

because of the fin length WS can't skip over the reef and must almost park sometimes to avoid the rocks, hoping for a gust to take them slogging upwind before they can bear off past the rock....they are not standing around to try and piss everyone off

if you are pinching upwind as a kiter don't be surprised if a WS who was following or above you drops below you as staying up with you is most times not an option...it's not that they want to steal your jump spot but they want to keep planing, will quickly bear off, gybe and head out again......while watching with paranoia and eyes on the back of their heads that you may do a jump run-up and fly over or into them

Windsurfers like kiters require downwind space to water start and get planing, so cutting just inches below them when they are in the water is not a good plan...nor appreciated.

GENERALLY when a nice wave face opens up, whoever's on it first in my mind gets it, read what people are doing on the water, it's not that hard, make eye contact, MAKE ROOM DOWNWIND EVERYONE if you are just running around to those wanting to slash. We all wanna have a crack at these things. Exceptions of course, such as those launching etc..

Most notably my pet peeve: Regardless of if you are a WS or kiter, if you are a drone going back and forth and like to wave to those you left behind at the stairs, please get the hell away from the reef and wave areas

There's always tons of room near the flatter sections of the beach. I usually retreat into the upwind bay or to Klover to play and get away from the crowds but when the reef goes off we all want to play there for a while even when it gets busy

If you are a beginner, same applies: keep away from the traffic

Thanks all for keeping tuned into the activity out there. Hopefully we can avoid any confrontations with light & sarcastic beach banter

Oh, BTW: keep in mind everyone screws up on occasion

and it's not usually intentional

Did I mention my vision is going bigtime

rookieRyan · Post by **rookieRyan** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:56 pm

Maybe if some of the kiters and windsurfers at cook st were more helpful than sarcastic and cocky. Rookies could actually learn something besides attitude and not be scared to go ther when they feel ther ready. we all have to learn one day.

more force 4 · Post by **more force 4** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:02 pm

I remember last summer two windsurfing buddies went way downwind to get away from the traffic; of course they ended up colliding with each other! I know I had one close call earlier this year when I thought I had lots of room to gybe and the Kona decided to keep going straight downwind despite much rail pressure..... Feel free to scream at me if I don't give you room!

Provided neither is looking to slash/jump, its fun as a windsurfer to sail close alongside a kiter for a while (so long as they aren't a newbie); giving each other lots of room need only apply at the turns and jumps.

Was that AC said at Cook windsurfers always have the right-of-way? Because they don't, and turning away when you have the right is actually more dangerous than going straight (maintaining your course) because the kiter/windsurfer who is 'burdened' (doesn't have the right-of-way) and turns away to avoid a collision, sure as sh1t will end up turning the same way as the kiter who turned mistakenly thinking that the windsurfer had the right. A helmet and body armour will help in this situation of course!

KUS · Post by **KUS** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:44 pm

rookieRyan wrote:Maybe if some of the kiters and windsurfers at cook st were more helpful than sarcastic and cocky. Rookies could actually learn something besides attitude and not be scared to go ther when they feel ther ready. we all have to learn one day.

Man, I can't think of a more friendly and supportive group of people I have ever met

maybe someone had a bad day

but if you read any advice from this forum it is not to go and "learn" at Cook St, cruising in traffic, over the reef, when the wind kicks up to 30+....and it's not because of the people or their fun sarcasm. We all make fun of/laugh at ourselves too you know

JL · Post by JL » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:08 pm

Cook st. should be considered only for intermediate kiters ... http://www.bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2072 Watch the kiters on the water before YOU go out if you are new to the spot: http://www.bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2950

voodmon · Post by **voodmon** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:22 pm

We call it kook st for a reason, very strong tidal action, wind can get really radical in seconds, lot's of reef, rocks to worry about, last thing a windsurfer needs when heading out is a kiter going across your bow with his lines lower than your sail, that said, you did the right thing by bailing, but you still left me only one option go upwind of you to avoid your lines, sorry i came so close, i thought you might have got the message the first time, however you didn't so the next couple of passes occurred, my apologies..vood out.

Cj · Post by Cj » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:29 am

Voodman... I'm pretty sure you sold me my first kite. Bronco 12 04! Nice sail. I learned to sail up wind with that that year, 04, yeah sweet year. sorry i cut your friend off. Black OC 10m rise in some, heavy wind the that day, sorry if i affended you, just tring to hold it down. No showboat or glory, ok some glory!! Relax and have fun this season. CJ

downwind dave · Post by **downwind dave** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:31 pm

"rider on wave has priority" meets "starboard tack has priority"
(no serious harm done according to poster)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_hHAa43E6w[/youtube]

rkwave · Post by **rkwave** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:49 pm

Starboard Tack has the right of way, but must maintain course in order for other sailors to pass either upwind or downwind in order to avoid collision.

On surfing waves the sailor on the way out has right of way.

Use common sense to avoid collision!!!

JL · Post by JL » Tue May 13, 2008 9:08 am

A couple points: 1. Starboard tack is when the wind is on your starboard bow ... In west winds the kiter/windsurfer heading out from the beach @ Cook st. has the right of way ... 2. Heading out maintain your course. How can a 'port tack' kiter/windsurfer 'give way' if they can't tell where your going ??? http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=st ... itesearch=

rkwave · Post by **rkwave** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:24 pm

Legally the rules of the road are in the Canadian Shipping Act

see: http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/GE ... csa14.html

Rule 3
General Definitions
(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of water craft, including non-displacement craft, WIG craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

(b) The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

SECTION II--CONDUCT OF VESSELS IN SIGHT OF ONE ANOTHER

Rule 12
Sailing Vessels
(a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows:
(i) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other,

However,

Rule 16
Action by Give-way Vessel

Every vessel which is directed to keep out of the way of another vessel shall, so far as possible, take early and substantial action to keep well clear.

Rule 17
Action by Stand-on Vessel
(a) (i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way the other shall keep her course and speed.

(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her manoeuvre alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.

Rule 18
Responsibilities between Vessels
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(iv) a sailing vessel.

(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre,
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.

That is to say:
Starboard Tack vessel has the right of way [Rule 12(a)(i)], but it must maintain its course and speed to enable the Port Tack vessel to manoeuvre to avoid collision[Rule 16 and Rule 17(a)(i)] .

The USA rules are similar.

MikeH · Post by **MikeH** » Tue May 13, 2008 5:09 pm

In the event two sailing vessels are on the same tack, the vessel to leeward (furthest from the wind direction, or furthest downwind) has right of way unless the upwind vessel is obstructed (by shoreline or debris etc).

aka with out regards to wave riding rules in the youtube video posted by downwind dave, the windsurfer would have the right of way over the kiter.

From experience in sailboat racing, don't assume everyone knows the rules. Plan to avoid in any case while kiteing or windsurfing. Sometimes if they know the rules, that doesn't mean they are watching. We all know how dangerous it is to cross or get tangled in lines, I prefer to keep some distance at all times..

If in doubt, get the hell out!