Crossing Straits / downwinders
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juandesooka
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Speaking for myself, I'm a pretty new kiter, haven't yet done a downwinder, but looking forward to trying. I have a bit more boating/fishing experience, sadly with a well-earned reputation of being a bit of an ongoing gong show. I have learned from painful experience the need to be super cautious, have all safety systems working, have backups in place, and also ensure conditions are optimal. Avoid problems before they happen, have an answer if they do, and set it up so that you don't need help unless several things go wrong at once.
I've got a devil cowboy on one shoulder and a hyper focused risk assessment angel on the other. All potentially risky decisions are balanced by "just go for it" and "think about it, are you sure?".
I think there could be 2 categories of downwinder....open water, way offshore, or along a very remote coastline is one thing; if you're close to shore in a place you can self-rescue and walk out, that's another.
Personally, if I do a downwinder in the more remote locations, where self rescue is iffy, I'd want the backup of a safety boat. But at minimum I'd bring my waterproof vhf and PFD. Flares, whistle, would be a good idea too ... if you get separated from your kite, you're a little black dot bobbing in waves ... and if at night, forget about it. A beacon with is good too....I am probably going to invest in one for boating offshore, that $200 might just save your life one day. Added bonus....useful back up for kiting in sketchy situations.
As a start I hope to do the JR to Gordons coastline one summer day ... I'd put that in category 1a ... somewhat remote, but pretty much the whole route is close to shoreline that you can walk out of. I'd likely only consider it on a day with solid westerly, capping from start to finish and with a solid forecast for the rest of the afternoon. And with at least 1 other person, ideally more. Would be fun to do in a group!
(though of course there's the negative side of that....your group is only as strong as the weakest kiter or the kiter with the worst gear....one person runs into the trouble, the whole mission becomes a rescue....better be sure to know your partners and their capabilities)
I've got a devil cowboy on one shoulder and a hyper focused risk assessment angel on the other. All potentially risky decisions are balanced by "just go for it" and "think about it, are you sure?".
I think there could be 2 categories of downwinder....open water, way offshore, or along a very remote coastline is one thing; if you're close to shore in a place you can self-rescue and walk out, that's another.
Personally, if I do a downwinder in the more remote locations, where self rescue is iffy, I'd want the backup of a safety boat. But at minimum I'd bring my waterproof vhf and PFD. Flares, whistle, would be a good idea too ... if you get separated from your kite, you're a little black dot bobbing in waves ... and if at night, forget about it. A beacon with is good too....I am probably going to invest in one for boating offshore, that $200 might just save your life one day. Added bonus....useful back up for kiting in sketchy situations.
As a start I hope to do the JR to Gordons coastline one summer day ... I'd put that in category 1a ... somewhat remote, but pretty much the whole route is close to shoreline that you can walk out of. I'd likely only consider it on a day with solid westerly, capping from start to finish and with a solid forecast for the rest of the afternoon. And with at least 1 other person, ideally more. Would be fun to do in a group!
(though of course there's the negative side of that....your group is only as strong as the weakest kiter or the kiter with the worst gear....one person runs into the trouble, the whole mission becomes a rescue....better be sure to know your partners and their capabilities)
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abetanzo
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I appreciate the chatter however, this is thread is about getting organized for a downwinder. The talk about if it was right or not should be dropped. Kayak is obviously a skilled individual and weighted up his concerns before attempting the recent downwinder. Hats off to him and yeahmon for not getting it wrong!
I will be organizing a saftey boat or two and possibly a start/finish line for the event and will be asking RVYC to contribute a boat and time/ effort from a member to drive it out to Race Rocks and monitor us travelling that specific area. I'd probably only ask the boat to assist if things are really bad and would hope that a fellow kboarder could assist to relaunch retrieve a board etc.
What I had envisioned was a transit line from Gordons (Martin's place?) to make a start line, once kiters have all launched have a large time indicator or just large number cards ie: 1min, 30sec, 10, 5, GO
Then take a transit at Finlayson Point to get finish places... no time adjustments or anything too formal just 1,2,3 etc... perhaps three different divisiions: race boards, surfboards, twintips.
I'd probably never attempt a long distance downwinder unless there was a saftey boat for OUR coastlines. a place like the Baja you could but I wanted to say that sometimes the less people know the better! Having a boat on stand by monitoring a radio would work also.
Physically having a boat chase us... well I would hope they'd have babes on board handing out beverages and taking photos together with their tops off!
I will be organizing a saftey boat or two and possibly a start/finish line for the event and will be asking RVYC to contribute a boat and time/ effort from a member to drive it out to Race Rocks and monitor us travelling that specific area. I'd probably only ask the boat to assist if things are really bad and would hope that a fellow kboarder could assist to relaunch retrieve a board etc.
What I had envisioned was a transit line from Gordons (Martin's place?) to make a start line, once kiters have all launched have a large time indicator or just large number cards ie: 1min, 30sec, 10, 5, GO
Then take a transit at Finlayson Point to get finish places... no time adjustments or anything too formal just 1,2,3 etc... perhaps three different divisiions: race boards, surfboards, twintips.
I'd probably never attempt a long distance downwinder unless there was a saftey boat for OUR coastlines. a place like the Baja you could but I wanted to say that sometimes the less people know the better! Having a boat on stand by monitoring a radio would work also.
Physically having a boat chase us... well I would hope they'd have babes on board handing out beverages and taking photos together with their tops off!
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juandesooka
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wow, that sounds pretty organized Abetanzo...hat's off to you if you can swing it.
You had mentioned boat rentals ... I don't think any of the boats they rent would be suitable for the ocean conditions in kiteable winds. Your best bet might be to charter a fishing boat ... they likely aren't fishing when we are kiting anyway. You'd probably have to pay extra for the distance travelled and for them suffering through bumpy conditions. You'd be into $500-1000, depending on Vic/Sooke/Renfrew and how many hours it would take. Still, split amongst a bunch of kiters, that could be some nice assurance for not too much $$.
Or, as you suggest, have this charter on standby ... they only go if a rescue is needed. Pay only a standby fee unless deployed. I can probably help find a willing fisher should it come to that.
You had mentioned boat rentals ... I don't think any of the boats they rent would be suitable for the ocean conditions in kiteable winds. Your best bet might be to charter a fishing boat ... they likely aren't fishing when we are kiting anyway. You'd probably have to pay extra for the distance travelled and for them suffering through bumpy conditions. You'd be into $500-1000, depending on Vic/Sooke/Renfrew and how many hours it would take. Still, split amongst a bunch of kiters, that could be some nice assurance for not too much $$.
Or, as you suggest, have this charter on standby ... they only go if a rescue is needed. Pay only a standby fee unless deployed. I can probably help find a willing fisher should it come to that.
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abetanzo
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As a minimum I'd like to have th RVYC RIB boat which is a 18'er or so with big motor that's suitable for those conditions..
I figure with a few people on the shores with binocs and radio in hand there could be a high level of safety during the event. I'd carry my own VHF and check in periodically and possibly sit back and monitor the fleet!
Swiftsure race committee has many spot trackers that could be loaned out to people participating and we could organize a webmap to track the kiters AND pole dancers!
further to the safety at sea thing.... i just read this in the 'reading room'
Sailors inherently know that risk is a function of probablity AND consequence.
consequences in kboarding out in the open ocean is losing our lives out there but you can do that less than a km offshore at Cook St... the probablity is low but it can happen everytime there's a westerly!
I figure with a few people on the shores with binocs and radio in hand there could be a high level of safety during the event. I'd carry my own VHF and check in periodically and possibly sit back and monitor the fleet!
Swiftsure race committee has many spot trackers that could be loaned out to people participating and we could organize a webmap to track the kiters AND pole dancers!
further to the safety at sea thing.... i just read this in the 'reading room'
Sailors inherently know that risk is a function of probablity AND consequence.
consequences in kboarding out in the open ocean is losing our lives out there but you can do that less than a km offshore at Cook St... the probablity is low but it can happen everytime there's a westerly!
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juandesooka
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I like that. I am also mindful of toesidet's advice "coast guard tom"... most marine disasters are a result of 3 things going wrong at once, any 1 or 2 of which would be possibly a small concern, but taken together are disastrous. EG water in your fuel, radio not working, night falling. Or, taking on water, battery dead, current pulling you out to sea.abetanzo wrote: further to the safety at sea thing.... i just read this in the 'reading room'
Safety systems and redundant systems can be thought of as a way to minimize the chance of having this chain of 3 events together.....if you can eliminate one, then it's an inconvenience not a disaster.
So is this rule of 3 similar in kiting? What are considerations in your go/no go decision for conditions, what are the safeties and redudancies you have in place for safety response?
Or maybe overthinking it?
vs 
if its in July and a weeks notice on my part is OK and of course the weather is good, i am more than happy to be a chase boat. people can donate money to bwd website instead of paying me. the fuel is paid for and the hours need to be put on the boats before we can deliver. we are not at the level of skill to attempt kiting this but could learn a lot from watching others.
will keep you posted
the boat is a 18 foot rhib
will keep you posted
the boat is a 18 foot rhib
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JL
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San. Fransisco 38 mile down winder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c7Kh3j-gJo 
http://oceanrodeo.com/forums/viewthread/4257/
http://oceanrodeo.com/forums/viewthread/4257/Thermals are good.
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JL
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June 4 2013 message board: Poohbear: I did the gordos to cook st downwinder with 5 other kiters and a rescue boat. It took us 5 and a half hours. 2 kiters needed the boat..(1 was too tired, 1 tore his bicep muscle) Dont be a goof/kook. Hire a rescue boat. Dont rely on coast guard. - Wednesday June 05, 5:44AM
Nanmoo: Some intelligent chatter on here this evening. - Tuesday June 04, 11:21PM
Sandy Beach: So stoked to watch ExtremekindnessErik with brother, Jaykub offering a wild kiteboarding show for many spectators off the Harbour Quay in windy, WARM Pt Alberni tonight. Great to see the kiteloops and jumps. Heard a lot of oohs and ahhs on deck
- Tuesday June 04, 10:59PM
Lassvegas: BK check your PMs - Tuesday June 04, 9:18PM
Lassvegas: BA check your PMs - Tuesday June 04, 9:07PM
Yeahmon: No you don't sound like an asshole you sound like a man caught up in a bit of fear, men Re generally afraid of approaching super hot women, men are afraid of risking their money in the commodity exchanges, men are afraid of asking directions, men are afraid of lots of stuff, but this stuff pays off, the fact is governments around the globe are going bankrupt faster than we can pump up our kites, the coast guard may not exist in some years and if it does it may consist of a patched zodiac, but for now it's there we can always pay cash for a pickup , everyone likes cash but best make our way as sir France's drake did before coast guard and may our bladders hold as we let all unfold - Tuesday June 04, 8:20PM
Kc7777: Good stuff posted for sale. Some new True Ames A-box fins for $40 - Tuesday June 04, 7:51PM
Teabag: I sound like an asshole... Didnt mean to and thinking of it now I have to admit the ban will more than likely never happen. I wish you good wind / no equipment failure in your sailing. - Tuesday June 04, 7:14PM
Teabag: Agree with you on some point (the ban). It will take more than 2 call a year offshore before they decide to ban or try to ban the sport. And I am pretty sure that in order to get 3+ rescue a year it will take at least 30 down winders if not more (~1/10). Its just that when its offshore multiple ships will have to answer the call (not sure about commercial but Navy are on obligation to answer if they have a unit out in the area). Just thinking in these multiple ships/helicopter scenario, will they be ok with doing 2 every year or someone higher up the chain is going to be fed up with these expansive rescue and try to shut the sport down? I guess im getting too paranoiac, but if these long downwinder become "no big deal lets do it" and people start doing them regularly we will more than likely getting the rescue statistic high (remember, people can call coast guard from shore to even if you dont need it, unfortunately it does happen regularly near shore). - Tuesday June 04, 7:02PM
Yeahmon: Teabag I agree never rely on the coast gaurd , I was shipwrecked 150 miles off Colombia the coast guard were as useful as band aids on massive bleeding, they are stuck up on regs, as far as bans forget it, they tried to ban the bra , they tried to ban pot , they won't ban printing money which leads us to the bottom line, be responsible for your own actions, it's 30 times more rush kiting out , it's like BASE jumping off the alps as opposed to cook st jumping from your garage roof, remember don't rely on anything but your senses and who can ban you of that , time to take the sport offshore , Columbus did it to sailing - Tuesday June 04, 6:13PM
Teabag: They dont think that there is an electric fence around their favorite spot or are not afraid for their own safety, they just dont want to help chances of coast guard rescue far from shore which could, after a while, create a ban on the sport (wouldnt be fair for the others). But im sure they ll be in if there are boat support (eleminating chances of coast guard rescue if equipment failure). (if you are talking of downwinder Gordo-Cook) - Tuesday June 04, 5:38PM
Yeahmon: 2508894993 - Tuesday June 04, 5:12PM
Yeahmon: hey if there is real wind on thursday anyone want to do something more fun than strobascopes,Kyakdoc is out country creating, maybe BA is up for it cause i think a lot of guys think revenue canada has installed an electric fence around cook, and gordons etc etc, i mean this is what 9 yr old Dominicans are doing after theirambilical cord is cut,life is a risk reward ratio they say - Tuesday June 04, 5:09PM
Nanmoo: Some intelligent chatter on here this evening. - Tuesday June 04, 11:21PM
Sandy Beach: So stoked to watch ExtremekindnessErik with brother, Jaykub offering a wild kiteboarding show for many spectators off the Harbour Quay in windy, WARM Pt Alberni tonight. Great to see the kiteloops and jumps. Heard a lot of oohs and ahhs on deck
- Tuesday June 04, 10:59PMLassvegas: BK check your PMs - Tuesday June 04, 9:18PM
Lassvegas: BA check your PMs - Tuesday June 04, 9:07PM
Yeahmon: No you don't sound like an asshole you sound like a man caught up in a bit of fear, men Re generally afraid of approaching super hot women, men are afraid of risking their money in the commodity exchanges, men are afraid of asking directions, men are afraid of lots of stuff, but this stuff pays off, the fact is governments around the globe are going bankrupt faster than we can pump up our kites, the coast guard may not exist in some years and if it does it may consist of a patched zodiac, but for now it's there we can always pay cash for a pickup , everyone likes cash but best make our way as sir France's drake did before coast guard and may our bladders hold as we let all unfold - Tuesday June 04, 8:20PM
Kc7777: Good stuff posted for sale. Some new True Ames A-box fins for $40 - Tuesday June 04, 7:51PM
Teabag: I sound like an asshole... Didnt mean to and thinking of it now I have to admit the ban will more than likely never happen. I wish you good wind / no equipment failure in your sailing. - Tuesday June 04, 7:14PM
Teabag: Agree with you on some point (the ban). It will take more than 2 call a year offshore before they decide to ban or try to ban the sport. And I am pretty sure that in order to get 3+ rescue a year it will take at least 30 down winders if not more (~1/10). Its just that when its offshore multiple ships will have to answer the call (not sure about commercial but Navy are on obligation to answer if they have a unit out in the area). Just thinking in these multiple ships/helicopter scenario, will they be ok with doing 2 every year or someone higher up the chain is going to be fed up with these expansive rescue and try to shut the sport down? I guess im getting too paranoiac, but if these long downwinder become "no big deal lets do it" and people start doing them regularly we will more than likely getting the rescue statistic high (remember, people can call coast guard from shore to even if you dont need it, unfortunately it does happen regularly near shore). - Tuesday June 04, 7:02PM
Yeahmon: Teabag I agree never rely on the coast gaurd , I was shipwrecked 150 miles off Colombia the coast guard were as useful as band aids on massive bleeding, they are stuck up on regs, as far as bans forget it, they tried to ban the bra , they tried to ban pot , they won't ban printing money which leads us to the bottom line, be responsible for your own actions, it's 30 times more rush kiting out , it's like BASE jumping off the alps as opposed to cook st jumping from your garage roof, remember don't rely on anything but your senses and who can ban you of that , time to take the sport offshore , Columbus did it to sailing - Tuesday June 04, 6:13PM
Teabag: They dont think that there is an electric fence around their favorite spot or are not afraid for their own safety, they just dont want to help chances of coast guard rescue far from shore which could, after a while, create a ban on the sport (wouldnt be fair for the others). But im sure they ll be in if there are boat support (eleminating chances of coast guard rescue if equipment failure). (if you are talking of downwinder Gordo-Cook) - Tuesday June 04, 5:38PM
Yeahmon: 2508894993 - Tuesday June 04, 5:12PM
Yeahmon: hey if there is real wind on thursday anyone want to do something more fun than strobascopes,Kyakdoc is out country creating, maybe BA is up for it cause i think a lot of guys think revenue canada has installed an electric fence around cook, and gordons etc etc, i mean this is what 9 yr old Dominicans are doing after theirambilical cord is cut,life is a risk reward ratio they say - Tuesday June 04, 5:09PM
Thermals are good.
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abetanzo
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so had a meeting with the RVYC sailing committee and had the chance to raise some other business being this long down winder... they all seemed pretty thrilled something like this could even happen...
steve mcbride has already discussed something like this with the junior laser sailors and Im sure a few 49er 420s 29ers.. etc would all be happy to race with us downwind!
the swiftsure race uses spot trackers and those would be available for the event as well there was talks about holding this near or close to the swiftsure week 2014... but again all weather dependant and we've all heard of the driftsure!
hope this next weekends RIPFEST is well attended in order to show to the YC that we are a bunch of sailors keen to expand our kite boarding rep...
please consider signing up for the RIPFEST asap in order to show your support... Im running the dam mark boat again so get your ass out there
steve mcbride has already discussed something like this with the junior laser sailors and Im sure a few 49er 420s 29ers.. etc would all be happy to race with us downwind!
the swiftsure race uses spot trackers and those would be available for the event as well there was talks about holding this near or close to the swiftsure week 2014... but again all weather dependant and we've all heard of the driftsure!
hope this next weekends RIPFEST is well attended in order to show to the YC that we are a bunch of sailors keen to expand our kite boarding rep...
please consider signing up for the RIPFEST asap in order to show your support... Im running the dam mark boat again so get your ass out there
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abetanzo
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wanted to update this thread... we succesfully completed the Gordon's to Clover sail ... thread located here: http://bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6652
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abetanzo
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Sunday's NE predicted as of 9am Friday looks good for a morning run from Island View Beach to Agate /Parker !!! perhaps a rounding of D'arcy Island or Zero Rock?? would be nice to have a good long run about as the length of the sail is only 5km as the crow flys
who's in if the forecast holds? Could be pretty cold!
who's in if the forecast holds? Could be pretty cold!
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ambientrax
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abetanzo
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resurrecting this thread for 2015
I was hopefully going to get the ball rolling for our bi-annual June or July downwinder from Gordons to Kook st!!
JDS- can you please touch base with the S&R outfit to nail down a boat support? maybe cguygo (colin) can lean on his buddies at the local S&R?? I will speak with the Royal Vic YC and confirm their dingy fleet and boat support!
we need to confirm a day that will likely not be missed by people! in order to participate I think I should ask for a registration fee or donation as a minimum for the gas spent in the boats!!! I don't know ~$100??
maximum riders say 20? do we even ask the windsurfers to join?
I was hopefully going to get the ball rolling for our bi-annual June or July downwinder from Gordons to Kook st!!
JDS- can you please touch base with the S&R outfit to nail down a boat support? maybe cguygo (colin) can lean on his buddies at the local S&R?? I will speak with the Royal Vic YC and confirm their dingy fleet and boat support!
we need to confirm a day that will likely not be missed by people! in order to participate I think I should ask for a registration fee or donation as a minimum for the gas spent in the boats!!! I don't know ~$100??
maximum riders say 20? do we even ask the windsurfers to join?
