Liability insurance

[juandesooka]

Reading an Australian forum about a kite accident involving injuries to a bystander. Interesting that in oz there's a kite association which provides public liability insurance for members. $125/year, which includes $65 for insurance, rest to events and such.

http://waksa.org.au/membership/4061-2/

There's inherent risks in kiting and we all accept these risks when we pump up that kite. And being part of the community, we accept some risks from our colleagues too, if a newbie screws up, and injures another kiter by accident, that is kind of seen as part of this. But what is considered inexcusable in our sport is hurting an uninvolved civilian ... and it's worrisome that it can happen in some situations out of your control.

The biggie may be a situation where you have to release the kite for your own safety, and it hurts someone downwind. This could happen anywhere that the kite will blow ashore somewhere downwind and there's people or property in the way.

The other danger point is on launch, if other people around. Clover is a potential nightmare. Cook St seems iffy too, as on a sunny day, there's people on the beach everywhere, especially sitting on the logs at base of the stairs, directly downwind less than 1 kite length from the main launch. Gordons and Columbia, more property damage scenarios. IV potential nightmare with dog walkers (had one unexpectedly run through my lines a few sessions ago, just as launcher let go , chasing ball thrown by idiot owner).

Likelihood of danger is small, but if it happens the outcome could be catastrophic....classic insurance scenario. You're covered by insurance driving to the beach. Maybe your house insurance has some liability coverage? Probably not.

Dunno, probably worry too much about unlikely outcomes, but the discussion down under got me thinking.

Anyone ever heard of Canadian associations or programs aimed to provide insurance coverage for kiters?

[nanmoo]

I get what you're saying but I think the probability around here is just so low. After seeing Kite Beach on New Year's Day after a 3 day wind drought my whole perspective of crowds, what is possible and safety has shifted. We simply don't have the density to worry me that much, and our ratio of kites in the air vs people on the beach is really, really low. Anything can happen of course, just look who got elected.

[juandesooka]

that's a good point. Picture a 10km long beach in Aus with literally 10,000 people swimming, playing, walking, etc......an out of control kite upwind has a really good chance of taking someone out. The probability around here is comparatively pretty low.

What is scary though, is that IF worst case scenario ever happens, it will be a life destroyer catastrophe. Beyond the psychological consequences of being at fault for seriously hurting someone else, the financial ramifications are mind boggling.

The other dangerous sports we pursue generally have consequences for ourselves, but not so much to others. Stepping back and thinking about it ... seems to me kiting is pretty much the sport with the most potential for random danger to others that comes to mind. What other sport can compare? Car racing in urban areas maybe. What else?

Anyways ... I guess the best bet is to double down on the basic concept that Kite Rule #1 is DO NOT HARM OTHERS. Kite Rule #2 is not to harm yourself. Think about worst case scenarios and be prepared ... and if the risk to others is too great, don't launch.

[abetanzo]

I'm pretty sure house insurance does come with liability up to $1M or so.. I use it for racing the boat out of RVYC... I'm not sure if this covers you when kite boarding and knowing insurance companies.. probably not!

[juandesooka]

I'm pretty sure house insurance does come with liability up to $1M or so.. I use it for racing the boat out of RVYC... I'm not sure if this covers you when kite boarding and know insurance companies.. probably not!

I do know travel health insurance covers kiting....had to check that one for permission to kite in maui. ;-)

For liability in Canada, who knows, but you're right, wouldn't be surprised if it is an exclusion. As well, personal injury litigation being what it is, $1m may be on low side in a catastrophe ... car insurance recommends $3m these days, and the Aus association limit is $10m.

[nanmoo]

The other dangerous sports we pursue generally have consequences for ourselves, but not so much to others. Stepping back and thinking about it ... seems to me kiting is pretty much the sport with the most potential for random danger to others that comes to mind. What other sport can compare? Car racing in urban areas maybe. What else?

I'd actually give this one to Mountain Biking. High speed hunk of metal with person on top barrelling down a confined trail also used by other bikers, hikers and large ungulates.... limited opportunities to avoid collision.

[abetanzo]

If we post a sign warning people of hazards and what not to do doesn't that make us not liable?

[Atomic-Chomik]

Go Oilers!

[MDCustom]

If we post a sign warning people of hazards and what not to do doesn't that make us not liable?

Some lawyers see the sign advising of dangers as an admittance of guilt. IE, you knew there was a risk to others, that is why you posted the sign. Therefore, you are liable for injuries inflicted by them.

Can't protect against stupidity. (As someone else posted earlier- look at the past election)

[tempy]

I think the existence of warning signs is a little more complicated than that.

If there is a known hazard, you have a responsibility to take reasonable precautions and warn others of the hazard. I don't think you are better off NOT warning about a risk or hazard.

But I am only one lawyer ....