Minor incident at Nitinat Aug 26th – feedback?

[TonyT1000]

I am a former windsurfer, competitive/experienced SUPer but newbie kiter, just completed lessons with Strong Kiteboarding at Nitinat this July/August. I took the whole 3 day lesson package. The plan is eventually to get good enough to kite locally in Victoria when my skills/confidence are there, hopefully by next summer. I can kite upwind fine on both sides but consistent kite control and basic transitions still need work.

So I was kiting at Nitinat the weekend of Aug 26/27th. I am kiting upwind across the lake from the campground side (to the left). Notice another kiter about 100m away coming straight towards me on the opposite tack. I veer upwind clearly & early to indicate my intention. He heads downwind of me but not enough for my liking. As he approaches I start to get a little concerned we are too close (given my inconsistent kite control) so I start to slow down and try to head a bit further upwind but I start to sink/stall and my kite gets too low to the water. I am too slow in getting the kite up and the other kiter collides with it, not super hard but definite contact happens. Now we’re both in the water. The other guy seems fine but is screaming bloody murder at me. I don’t notice kite damage right after the incident but when he emerges from behind my kite after 20-30 seconds, still screaming at me, I notice it is ripped (did the collision cause the rip or did he intentionally damage it? Hard to be sure). I try to explain to this guy that this was unintentional, I’m learning etc. but he’s having none of it. He proceeds to kite right around me, more obscenities and seems to enjoy seeing my kite damage. I have to body drag back to the beach.

I know assigning “blame” after any incident is essentially futile but I am curious for some feedback. Yes I screwed up in not keeping my kite higher being upwind of him – lesson learned. But surely a kiter downwind of you has some responsibility to stay a reasonable distance away, especially if it’s pretty clear the upwind rider is a newbie? I want to be a responsible member of the kiting community so any feedback on right of way issues or other points of etiquette would be appreciated.

[Digital427]

Hey Tony,

The way i read it you were on a port tack (traveling left on you heel edge) so right of way was his/hers. That being said, avoiding a collision is every ones job. Most somewhat experienced kiters know to look for the sure signs of helmet/GoJoe/ass out stance as an indication to stay the hell away... a bit of a deuche move to do otherwise.
I know when your learning kite control can be difficult but getting that kite up high when your going upwind of some one is important. Both for clearance and for signaling your intentions. If your new, best bet is to just keep you kite mid to low height for control and head downwind. You can usually make up the lost ground later.
As you gain more experience what feels like a 'reasonable distance' tends to shrink quite a bit. When your new anyone on the same side of the lake feels like an immanent collision
Shitty deal on getting the earful, shitty about the ripped kite (bet it was the collision, pretty had to do on purpose). i wish people were a little more forgiving but, when you get a kite dumped on you it can be a bit of a piss off. I had it happen to me this summer and admittedly i gave an arms up 'what the fuck?'.
Best bet when your learning at Nitinat is cross the lake, grind upwind to a bit passed the schools on the far half of the lake then just practice practice practice.
See ya out there!

[Globe]

My expert opinion:

If you're out kiting and presumably out there to have fun you need to relax. I don't care who has the right away shit happens. If you damage someone elses kite then you should be offering to repair it.

I just don't for the life of me understand people that get agro on the water. Go sit on the beach and read a book if you can't handle the stresses of other kiters on the water with you. And being more "experienced" doesn't give you the right to be an ass to others that make mistakes. In fact, the better kiter should have given you more space or been quicker to react. I've had newer kiters wrap with me usually from behind and I've never been upset with them at all. It's a tough sport to learn and we're all "learning" out there. Shit happens.

Expert opinion over.

We're all out there to have fun. So relax. Best of luck learning.

[more force 4]

Yes you were on port tack so had responsibility to keep clear. But you tried to go well upwind and ended up pinching and with the kite too low. Kiter on starboard has right of way and is supposed to keep a steady course. I'm not sure from your description if they also went upwind but regardless in the end its everyone's responsibility to avoid an accident and the starboard tack kiter should have recognized a beginner and given you more than a kite length of space passing downwind. You've learnt now it is easier to avoid someone on the opposite tack by going downwind but the instinct seems to be to pinch high, maybe because of the slower speed.

I found myself on a layline for the course at Windfest a couple of years ago when I was just starting. It seemed like a nearly clear lake (and admittedly, a lot of my attention was on the few kiters coming the opposite way to me). I guess I went longer than I should have without looking upwind but suddenly the sky was filled with kites blasting downwind. I quickly slowed down till I sank into the water and concentrated on holding my kite at the zenith until almost all the racers had passed and I was confident I could cross the course line before the next group of racers got there. I figured a non-moving target with kite straight up was the easiest to avoid and talking to some of the racers later they agreed. Probably in most situations where you aren't sure what you should do, the best action is likely stopping and keep your kite high.

[BigDog21]

IKO Summary of Kiting Rules:

http://www.bigwavedave.ca/gallery/displ ... play_media

You were the upwind kiter on port tack, consequently, you should have kept your kite high or given right of way to the kiter on starboard tack, who did have the right of way. You did neither and crashed your kite into the oncoming kiter. No wonder they were mad.

It also sounds like you were "pinching" the kiter on starboard tack which is a "no no" as you are the one that should be giving way considering you were on port tack.

If you are unsure of your kite control passing other kiters you should go downwind of them when passing to avoid collisions and then you can keep your kite low. Or, if you do this well in advance: sink in the water, put your kite at 12, and go the other way. Safety first.

[TonyT1000]

Thanks folks - useful info. Good to get a review of the port/starboard tack right of way issues. I'll totally own that. Thankfully there were no injuries. Surely this should be mandatory info for all kite schools to impart before letting newbies loose? Handout? 10 min explanation of the key rules?

My two additional takeaways are: (1) if in doubt defer to common sense: regardless of tack take all reasonable steps to avoid a collision especially if the other kiter looks inexperienced, and (2) never be verbally aggressive or generally a D-bag while on the water - it's worth remembering that no-one actually intends to cause an accident.

Hopefully neither of these are too far off base.

[Geoffy]

TonyT1000 - from your last post it appears that after three days of kite-school they had NOT completely explained right-of-way rules???? If this is so (kite-school people please weigh in here) this is a major f*%k-up and needs to be addressed. Would explain some of the conflict down in windsurfer-zone though as newbies kite through.

And your best take-away is well stated - always avoid a collision/confrontation, no matter who's correct, sitting on the beach with an injury while being right is less fun than the alternative.

Please send a message to your school/teacher and direct them to this thread. Rules should be taught before ever going on the water!

[nanmoo]

Come on guys, explaining right of way rules? To a newbie? As if that was the problem or solution? That's like suggesting he could've avoided it if he just pulled A mega loop (ok slight exaggeration).

It's the more competent kiters job to steer clear first and foremost no matter who has right of way. Right of way for our newbie friend here is further down the road when He has that level of control.

Only tip I'd offer is that if this happens again, as early as you can put your kite to 12 and just wait for the conflict to clear.

[JL]

While I was in a marine nav. course one of the guys pointed it it was the: "slow down & turn right right course". Now add in the stbd. tack right of way. (the wind is coming FROM your stbd. side, so the kiters & windsurfing returning to the beach at Nitinaht have the right of way) & the overtaking vessel must keep clear & you have a great start on the rules of the road. A kiting addition is that the upwind kiter keeps his/her kite high & downwind low.

[tempy]

Tony, the starboard/port tack rule is vital - especially for newbies.

The way it helps is that the newbie remembers that when they are on Port (have to give way) - to start avoiding early and that generally means go downwind, or, in a pinch just stop; sit down and hold your kite at 12. (that worked for me early on)

I don't know whether Strong or Elevation drum that into students (I don't remember from my lessons), but they should, because it is the simplest water "right of way" / collision avoidance rule.

There is a more frightening "zone" for newbies (including me) that we should be educating each other on - and that is the land / launch area. The wind can be quite sketchy and light when you come in to land - which makes kite control difficult. You often have "one shot" at it as a newbie.

The problem is that there are often experienced kiters hotdogging up and down the zone 100 m from shore, back and forth and creating "more kites in the air" in that critical zone. I know it is cool to come in and do the death loop vader roll upside down in the leopard thong right in front of the stage, but that can lead to newbie coming in to land, kite falling out of sky unable to avoid and drifting into log (which is a much easier trick, btw).

Don't get me wrong - kiting is cool and I am loving it, and I know there is this whole "no rules" vibe amongst some folk, but it would be awesome if the schools post and educate right of way / collision avoidance rules and then that the experienced kiters persuasively and gently enforce them amongst their peers.

Accidents will happen, but IMHO they are only truly accidents when folks do everything "right", but the shit still happens.

For example, someone doing their trick right at shore; crashing and knocking someone on the beach out with their kite is not an accident. It is a totally foreseeable risk that the kiter chose to ignore - with foreseeable consequences.

Similarly, if we don't teach each other - lessons or not, about starboard and port (and other right of way rules) - even just to look over your shoulder before making a turn - then a collision becomes less an accident and more about a failure to set up, practice and enforce good practices.

We have been lucky on the Island that serious injuries have (I believe) been self inflicted, but it will only take one serious injury to a person not kiting for a whole new level of scrutiny to be applied to the sport - with predictable consequences for regulation and water access.

This post is longer than I had planned, but I hope it has the intended result of making us more thoughtful about our watersports. It is certainly not intended to bash kiters, the schools or anyone for that matter.

[winddoctor]

There are rules and there's common sense. The more experienced kiter had right of way but may have been able to react to avoid the impending collision. No excuse for his aggro behaviour. #1 rule: Always give way to people with eyes as big as saucers whether you are on port or starboard tack . Likely they're out of control and will appreciate your courtesy. For the new kiter, parking the kite and sitting in the water at 12 is a good idea until the other kiter is past.

[winddude]

The right of way rules definitely matter. even more witht eh mix of windsurfing and kiting. If you aren't sure communicate. And if you have right of way communicate, yell at them, "STARBOARD", or something simple they will understand. eg, bare off, head up, head down, w/e works. My favorite when someone is begin extra duchie or agro, is "Get the F*** out of here!"

Pretty sure the IKO schools/instructors would have to teach the rules, but I think some of schools at Nitnat aren't IKO. If the schools aren't teaching right of way rules, that's just negligent.

[CTK]

The problem is that there are often experienced kiters hotdogging up and down the zone 100 m from shore, back and forth and creating "more kites in the air" in that critical zone. I know it is cool to come in and do the death loop vader roll upside down in the leopard thong right in front of the stage, but that can lead to newbie coming in to land, kite falling out of sky unable to avoid and drifting into log (which is a much easier trick, btw).

Main reason we do tricks close to shore just above the big stump is that its the smoothest water on the lake..... chop is shitty for tricks and everywhere else has lots of chop. If your a beginner you should stay away. Kites landing launching and experienced kiters doing tricks. We usually follow a rotation into this flatter spot and nothing is more annoying than a beginner constantly tacking into it with no clue whats going on. The only other great smooth spot the windsurfers have and were frowned upon so i generally avoid it.

Id say you were in the wrong Tony. Always just head downwind well before approaching another experienced kiter and you will have no issues.

Typical beginner i find will hold his tack until close then get scared and put the kite at 12 when downwind and sit in the water...... when all they needed to do was drop there kite and criuse downwind.. but i always see it coming and either bear hard upwind or pass downwind with my kite extremely low regardless of priority as there beginners.

[more force 4]

Id say you were in the wrong Tony. Always just head downwind well before approaching another experienced kiter and you will have no issues.

Typical beginner i find will hold his tack until close then get scared and put the kite at 12 when downwind and sit in the water...... when all they needed to do was drop there kite and criuse downwind.. but i always see it coming and either bear hard upwind or pass downwind with my kite extremely low regardless of priority as there beginners.

I think its critical for the kite schools to teach right-of-way rules (and I expect any liability lawyer would say the same) AND for more experienced people to know them and follow them. I'm a little concerned about the 'always just head downwind' advice if its meant for both port and stbd tack, because two people trying to give way to each other is a recipe for crashing.

Also it works much better if the starboard sailor/kiter just keeps going the same way they were before, and doesn't stop just because they feel wobbly, because if you are avoiding by powering upwind and the beginner suddenly stops and puts their kite straight up that is potential collision (although yes you should be just giving them more room to start with or tacking away).

Anyway, once a kiter is stopped and the kite at 12 (or crashed) it puts the kiter into a 'not uinder command vessel' rules for port or starboard tack, as in:

A sailing vessel [kiter] must give way to:
a vessel not under command [e.g., kiter drifting with kite at 12];
a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre (this may include vessels towing one another) [pretty much any raw newby, also anyone towing a kiter or their gear in a rescue, they have right-of-way even if they are on port and you are starboard].

[tempy]

It sounds like there needs to be a Kiter "Show Zone" for air and boosts that everyone is aware of - much like the windsurfers know that the area just off the launch is the "Jibe Zone" and that you generally get in there and get out.

The shore zone in the vicinity can be the "Duck Zone" !

This is by no means a complete or even partial answer, but here is a simple sketch that can illustrate some "safer" water usage - always with the understanding that shit happens .

Perhaps it is a start and can use some input.