Wingfoiling

[MartyD]

Well whatever is going on that F-One Rocket is a really nice board👌
I would like to try it in a 50-60L. The 40L Alien Air I rode was just an old kitefoil board and I wanted to see if it was possible. It is so tiny that the "surface tension", or whatever effect it is, was non existent. As soon as I could stand it was one or two pump with the wing and I was up on foil. Same story for the 55L Stinger and that was a flat bottom.
But for teaching and first rides I think the barge will be nicer as it is much more stable. That greasy feeling won't be great for a total beginner.

[winddoctor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D_60GyM31g

Ozone V2. Love how they show men and women ripping as well as a kid. Least dorky wing promo vid I've seen. 👏.

[UnusuallyLargeRobin]

That is very HAWT ! ! !

[Tsawwassen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D_60GyM31g

Ozone V2. Love how they show men and women ripping as well as a kid. Least dorky wing promo vid I've seen. 👏.

Great video but man it makes me miss Maui even more! Now that I've started winging I can't wait to try it there!!

[AJSpencer]

Today was awesome! Hopefully everyone avoided that deadhead bobbing through.
Today left me with a few questions/advice needed though:
1) 100%, ULR’s advice on the retractable leash is super convenient and out of the way. Have both connected to waist harness. I haven’t twisted them up despite some awkward bails today. But since I got this retractable leash, I was surprised how easy it is to detach it — the mechanism is simply like thumb spring to open the jaws. But when I was pulling my board towards me under the wing after a bail I realized I easily could accidentally open the jaws and lose the board while pulling on it, especially if wearing gloves and not feeling the metal piece. I was thinking of replacing it with something slightly less easy to detach, but was also thinking of tying it together instead. Any safety issues you can see with tying it together? I can’t imagine a scenario where I’d need a quick release on the board, but maybe someone else has had a situation where they were glad it was easy.

2) Maybe this earlier model Duotone is worse than others for this but if I’m climbing back on and the wing is “upright” doing the wind-climb and nosedive/divebomb cycle when its really windy, pulling the wing in by the leash is sometimes not possible with the ultra slippery plastic line that slides through the hands regardless how hard I’m holding onto it. Do any other wings have leashes (or aftermarket leashes) that have better grip? Or is this another safety thing? Does anyone do a wrap with the leash around the hand for grip to pull it in or is there an issue with that? I know you shouldn’t ever do that with a board leash.

3) Maybe also the older model wing but when gusting 25+ on the 5.0 wing it tends to blow flat and even want to nosedive down so its a struggle to keep the luff up or sheet in at all and end up losing speed very fast. Are newer models better with that or is that simply an overpowered wing? Guess I need a smaller wing anyways.

Thanks for all the advice.

[AJSpencer]

Pre-ordered a 3.5m Duotone Slick.
Like the look of that design.

[UnusuallyLargeRobin]

Today was awesome! Hopefully everyone avoided that deadhead bobbing through.
Today left me with a few questions/advice needed though:
1) 100%, ULR’s advice on the retractable leash is super convenient and out of the way. Have both connected to waist harness. I haven’t twisted them up despite some awkward bails today. But since I got this retractable leash, I was surprised how easy it is to detach it — the mechanism is simply like thumb spring to open the jaws. But when I was pulling my board towards me under the wing after a bail I realized I easily could accidentally open the jaws and lose the board while pulling on it, especially if wearing gloves and not feeling the metal piece. I was thinking of replacing it with something slightly less easy to detach, but was also thinking of tying it together instead. Any safety issues you can see with tying it together? I can’t imagine a scenario where I’d need a quick release on the board, but maybe someone else has had a situation where they were glad it was easy.

2) Maybe this earlier model Duotone is worse than others for this but if I’m climbing back on and the wing is “upright” doing the wind-climb and nosedive/divebomb cycle when its really windy, pulling the wing in by the leash is sometimes not possible with the ultra slippery plastic line that slides through the hands regardless how hard I’m holding onto it. Do any other wings have leashes (or aftermarket leashes) that have better grip? Or is this another safety thing? Does anyone do a wrap with the leash around the hand for grip to pull it in or is there an issue with that? I know you shouldn’t ever do that with a board leash.

3) Maybe also the older model wing but when gusting 25+ on the 5.0 wing it tends to blow flat and even want to nosedive down so its a struggle to keep the luff up or sheet in at all and end up losing speed very fast. Are newer models better with that or is that simply an overpowered wing? Guess I need a smaller wing anyways.

Thanks for all the advice.

Hey AJ,
1) Haven't ever worried about the spring clip connection on the reel leash. I don't see you ever having to grab it unless you want to disconnect. You can draw the board back toward you by pulling on the leash or just let the it retract and bring it back to you, either way once the board is within arm's reach you grab the board not the board leash connection to maneuver the board around

Safety reasons for quick disconnect: You don't want to have any permanent knot or difficult to disconnect leash. The last thing you want is to be somehow wrapped up to your board upside down in the water or the like and unable to disconnect. If you are in any waves it's amazing how discombobulated everything can get in a good tumble and spin cycle.

Other reasons for quick disconnect: Avoiding leash wrap while getting out of water, sometimes it's just easier to "shoulder carry" the board/foil with the foil over the front of your shoulder rather than try to carry a board sideways out of the water. I've found i really like to be able to quickly disconnect the board for a shoulder carry when I'm standing in the shore pound trying to get onto land. I time the landing, hop off quickly, disconnect board leash. I spin my board around quickly so tail is toward the shore and I can get the mast onto my shoulder to get foil in control, away from bottom grinding and out of water. Because I'm spinning the board around (disconnected) I don't have leashes wrapping around me while standing around vulnerable in shore pound.

Depends on the conditions your in, of course you can also get in between board and wing, flip the board on side with foil pointing upwind and grab the bottom handle and hot foot it out of the shore pound too while keep all leashes connected.

2) Some wings are very unruly when at the end of their leash in strong wind. I avoid this for the most part by always hanging on to at least my front hand in a wipeout. If you're falling away from the board/foil, there's never an issue and you always have your wing in control, just gather up your board and you're ready to go again.

3) It really sounds like you're leading edge angle of attack is beyond it's range and getting backwinded. Adjust the angle that you're holding the wing and/or the angle you're sailing at. You can only go so close to the wind, which depends on combinations of your wing design, foil design, board speed/apparent wind angle. Some of the newer wings have smaller diameter leading edge which helps point higher, and generally everyone is trending to more rigid airframes/canopies which don't backwind as easy, but you'll still be able to find limits!

[AJSpencer]

Good points, ULR. Those board leashes are obviously used hundreds of times every day across North America and I'm sure it would be addressed if it was too easy to detach, like you say. Also watching Gunnar's video about being leashless, or accidentally losing the board, and using the wing to body drag is excellent and I'll practice that at some point just incase.
https://www.facebook.com/kitechino/vide ... 802930057/

Yes, that's right, when it got really goofy I fell off the wind a bit to a close-reach and less twitchy. But i think Saturday was just the upper end of that 5.0 wing too.
One issue with holding onto the LE of the wing and getting onto the board is the sinky clew on that wing, which doesn't have a strut, so if I try to get onto the board like that the clew sinks and then I end up running over the wing which is frustrating and potentially damaging. So I instead had to let it go out away from the board then reel it in.
The Slick I have coming for that wind range will have a floaty clew so I will do as you say and be hanging onto it when reboarding.

Really love the feel of winging, especially the wave energy which is more obvious than with windfoiling for my kooky experience. i think I'll progress with riding the waves much quicker with the wing, as well as gybe, and then bring that experience back to windfoiling to progress faster there as well.

I see a world for both! Don't shame me Bobson!

[UnusuallyLargeRobin]

Good points, ULR. Those board leashes are obviously used hundreds of times every day across North America and I'm sure it would be addressed if it was too easy to detach, like you say. Also watching Gunnar's video about being leashless, or accidentally losing the board, and using the wing to body drag is excellent and I'll practice that at some point just incase.
https://www.facebook.com/kitechino/vide ... 802930057/

John (juanDsooka) and I can both attest to how impossible it is to catch a unleashed board. I don't hold any hope for Gunnar's method unless you are in a no current/waves, <10 kn wind, shore surrounded area. They take off and you are screwed! Always use a leash.

[AJSpencer]

Good to know.
Ya I’ve seen my board foiling on a wave without me with no intention of stopping until the windsurf rig pulled it over. At least Gunnar’s self rescue method is a way to get to shore downwind, in decent wind, without swimming, which could be useful for me.

[smartang]

I practice Gunnar's method every time I go out. It works in most conditions, just not waves. For practice bring a longer leash or rope out on the water. Add to your board leash and attempt to body drag. My board is getting dragged behind me every time.

There's a lot of beginner's worried about going upwind in light (sub foiling) winds. I would consider being able to kneel and go upwind in light winds along with Gunnar's body dragging method the equivalent of kiteboarding body dragging lessons. And something everyone should be proficient in before wing foiling on foil.

I can easily go upwind in a few knots (I can foil in 7 knots so significantly less than that) either kneeling or standing which is one advantage of a bigger board. Kneeling works, but standing is more comfortable, plus you can torque the board upwind with your feet.

[AJSpencer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnQtJGn5E64
Big points to f-one for making the first foiling video without obnoxious music.
Might be my next board!

[AJSpencer]

Had sound off for first half I guess.

[raquo]

Speaking of leash safety. Interesting read about foiling in a river, or any channel with current: https://www.riversurflab.com/2014/09/23 ... r-surfing/

I'm in Squamish so even though I'm definitely not planning to foil in the river mouth, I'm trying to figure out a good safe leashing solution with quick disconnect for both wing and board. Especially if they end up removing the spit, river current will spread to a much bigger area.

I like the idea of clipping quick-release leashes to fixed hard points on the PFD, except my impact vest is too soft and doesn't have anything of the sort.

[more force 4]

similar danger to ankle leashes in river is wearing a leash where there is strong tidal current going around any obstacle. Pilings are a big hazard. A couple of kayakers have drowned from wearing leashes that attached them to their boats.

If you wear a PFD with a leash attached to a tow belt system as a leash D-ring attachment point, the belts often come with a hole to attach a ball to assist with a quick release if shit meets fan - but don't come with the ball, you have to add that yourself! I found that out on a course last weekend, also that when in use my quick release rotated around in the pfd so the quick release was inside one of the sleeves of the pfd made to route the belt, so pretty much useless.

But the thought of foiling in river current has me thinking of trying out Tillicum rapids (I'm 5 minutes away) with a shore-based system to hold on to while foiling. The bottom end of the rapids should work, still lots of current without rocks and a nice safe recovery pool downstream. Be good for a giggle, I expect its too variable to foil and balance for more than a second or two. I think leashless with buddies to reconnect swimmer to board would be safest.