Tuning/ Rigging Advice for a 5.0 Hot Sails Superfreak

[Cwsox5150]

As a more novice/ Intermediate sailor getting into things still, I am at the point where I am starting to pay more attention to the tuning of my rigs. Im slowly understanding the concepts and how to dial things in, but am always looking for tips. I am however having a hell of a time trying to tune and properly rig my 5.0 Hot Sails Maui Super Freak. The bag says to run 16 - 18cm of extension with a 400 mast, I have another 5.0 Hot Sail that requires 25 - 27cm of extension and the Super Freak seems to want around that 24 - 26cm range (which is what the rig guide for the SF has listed on line no idea why the sail bag and rig guide are differing so much). Now that I have started to get a lot more downhaul on the sail, it seems to be running better overall, less of it trying to huck me with gusts but it still doesn't quite feel right. Im wondering how much outhaul/ how tight it should be, if i could be running more DH or if its right or if it needs less and if the battens are tensioned properly. The SF is made out of Dacron and when fully rigged its really hard to tell, i'm wondering if anyone here has rigged a SF and ran one and has any advice, even after rigging and running it a number of times I feel like I don't have it tuned properly, its been feeling heavy and trying to throw me with gusts and the balance is off. I did put some tension on the battens and played around with it but its almost impossible to see anything with the Dacron and super small single panel window. Hoping someone has some experience with these or similar sails and would be able to shed some light/ pass any tips along as to how to really dial it in.
For reference I am running it on an SDM 400 with an IMCS of 19.
Boom size is 168 - 170 - ive been running the boom at 168.
Extension size on bag says 16 - 18, I have been running between 20 - 25, 25 seems to be the best, but I really cant tell

[grantmac]

SF are very mast sensitive, what brand are you rigging it on?

[more force 4]

HSM bag and sail info for things like extension length are completely untrustworthy. They are often wildly wrong. I had to write the correct numbers on my bags and sail with a sharpie (the right numbers usually from the on-line rigging guide I think). Superfreaks are, as others have said, really hard to rig correctly. You can't see the leach looseness nor the luff curve until its fully powered up and you aren't going to see that lying on the beach. Basically you want to downhaul till the bottom two battens are not sticking in front of the mast. About halfway along the mast before outhauling will be about right for loads of wind. I don't think I hardly ever got mine just right. BWD, Chris C, and others were way better at rigging these things than me and might get you better answers. But their memories may be going, they are more concerned about strut air pressure these days

[Cwsox5150]

Excel Wave 400, 13'2", ICMS 19, SDM

[bwd]

As MF4 says, don't believe the numbers on the bag. I think some of the batches has misprints on them. They are a bit tough to rig, but should work I think on SDM or RDMs. They are probably less sensitive to differences in SDMs, but I think they might need a bit of a flex-top...? Not sure about the Excel mast.

You can over downhaul and outhaul them and then they will feel terrible. When rigged correctly on the right mast they should be really stable and handle gusts well. Make sure if you are overpowered to just sheet out slightly with the back hand to depower.

There's a fair bit of info online.

Some tuning tips from some guy named Jeff:

[Cwsox5150]

Here is it rigged today with some help from Bobson

[Cwsox5150]

Im pretty sure it likes 23cm of extension the best as 16 - 18 wasnt enough. Pretty sure i was over down hauling and definitely had to much OH as well. Not 100% about batten tension but it looks better than before. Thanks to Bobson for checking it over with me

[Cwsox5150]

As MF4 says, don't believe the numbers on the bag. I think some of the batches has misprints on them. They are a bit tough to rig, but should work I think on SDM or RDMs. They are probably less sensitive to differences in SDMs, but I think they might need a bit of a flex-top...? Not sure about the Excel mast.

You can over downhaul and outhaul them and then they will feel terrible. When rigged correctly on the right mast they should be really stable and handle gusts well. Make sure if you are overpowered to just sheet out slightly with the back hand to depower.

There's a fair bit of info online.

Some tuning tips from some guy named Jeff:

Hey man thanks for the response. Ive definitely watched the 2 or 3 rig videos on the SF with Jeff but im still confused. I printed the rig guide for it too but being more novice im running into confusion with not exactly knowing what is right or what should feel right. Funny enough i believe this particular SF was actually yours. I bought it off a buddy and i think he bought it off of you a while back. Really love how light it is, ran it about 6 or 7 times but just never got it properly rigged that and getting hucked with the gust

[grantmac]

Looks like you need more OH and possibly more DH, but I didn't ever mass with SDM masts on mine.

[bwd]

Yeah that's my old 5.0 SF UltraLight version. I was using a HSM HotRod RDM 400 on it and it worked really well. It should be able to handle lots of wind.

It looks pretty good from the photos to me. If you had too much DH and OH that could explain the poor handling. Hopefully Bobson's rigging help has fixed it for you.

Winddoc (Chris) is the master of rigging and could tell you if it's rigged right and will work on that mast . If it's windy in Ross Bay one day you could come and rig it on the beach there.

Dave

[winddoctor]

I'd be happy to have a look at how it's rigged in person. PM me if you like. I loved these sails for their maneuverability and gust eating capabilities. Like Dave said, Overdownhauling/outhauling kills the feel of these awesome sails, but they are a bit different to rig from standard mono film sails. They should have just a slight hint of floppiness in the leech between batten 1 and 2 from top and the second batten at the mast end should pull away so that it is situated in the middle of the mast with no contact as it rotates. The luff area near the boom should have that "accordion" wrinkle at rest; don't pull it flat with outhaul. It's designed to be flat while luffed and pretty full sheeted in (but not touching boom).

[Cwsox5150]

I'd be happy to have a look at how it's rigged in person. PM me if you like. I loved these sails for their maneuverability and gust eating capabilities. Like Dave said, Overdownhauling/outhauling kills the feel of these awesome sails, but they are a bit different to rig from standard mono film sails. They should have just a slight hint of floppiness in the leech between batten 1 and 2 from top and the second batten at the mast end should pull away so that it is situated in the middle of the mast with no contact as it rotates. The luff area near the boom should have that "accordion" wrinkle at rest; don't pull it flat with outhaul. It's designed to be flat while luffed and pretty full sheeted in (but not touching boom).

I havent had a tonne of downhaul on it, thats how i figured out it needed more as ive rigged it to the sail spec, but now realizing instead of 18cm it needs 23 or 24cm. So i think Ive got the DH amount figured, I have been pretty well reefing the OH tho so Im asuming definitely too much outhaul. Even after reading the specific rigging guide and watching the SF rig videos I still can't tell. So far all ive realized is it needs 23 - 24cm of extension and that the OH needs to be looser. I have sent you a pm, ill definitely have to come down to Ross Bay and rig it soon

[more force 4]

one small thing, unless you are running an adjustable outhaul, the clew should be snug or at least very close to the end of the boom, it helps stabilize the sai. I always used to leave mine with extra room, like in these pics, my thinking being that I could add outhaul easily if I was overpowered even in the water; but it would have been better to get more stability and that would make the sail more forgiving.

[Cwsox5150]

one small thing, unless you are running an adjustable outhaul, the clew should be snug or at least very close to the end of the boom, it helps stabilize the sai. I always used to leave mine with extra room, like in these pics, my thinking being that I could add outhaul easily if I was overpowered even in the water; but it would have been better to get more stability and that would make the sail more forgiving.

Great advice, I did move the boom out 2 notches. I will bring it back in, definitely put way too much outhaul on the sail.

Thanks for the tips, I really appreciate it

[duckbill]

It sounds like you are on the right track. The key with any sail is nailing the downhaul then its easy to adjust the outhaul for differing conditions or comfort.