Sewage Treatment - Do we need it?

[Kite Kook]

a most excellent discussion!

Richard, that is awesome that you guys are doing some independent testing, that is the kind of thing we need.

I have a bit of a reptutation as a shit-disturber, and I have been kind of playing the devil's advocate on all of this, but I think open debate often produces the best solutions.

jjim - I believe the killer whale (and polar bear) problem is dioxins, which from my limited knowledge was from PCBs? I seem to remember something about getting more concentrated as they work their way up the food chain. While even wild salmon have some (and hence the seals, killer whales, and polar bears), the concentration in farmed salmon is apparently far higher. But I guess that could be an entirely different debate..

Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far, and if you feel motivated, please consider writing an email or two to the above politicians. Power in numbers!

Richard/Ross - keep us posted!

Cheers,
Paul

[jjjim]

The dioxons is a different debate but part of the overall abuse we heap on the landscape. I'm just gettin' the creeps hearing all this. Note to self: always bathe thoroughly after sailing and scrub out wetsuit. Yuck!
Out here in the sticks we land owners pay for our own septic fields which are inspected. They're not cheap but everybody pays. City folks should not be shocked to have to pay to clean up after themselves. I haven't done the math, but would be surprised if individual Victorians would have to pay anywhere near as much as us country folks willingly pay for septic fields. Victorians; quit belly-aching about the cost, work up some self respect and fix a disgusting situation. Please. E-mails to politicians?; for sure.

[KUS]

ok jiiim let's just not go THERE, my property and new sewer/water user (read: cash grab) taxes, fees etc. are paying for something....maybe not the right things but it's a sore point with me I'd rather be on septic and well any day, unfortunately this is not my choice to make

[more force 4]

I made an earlier remark about my being on septic and therefore not contributing to any problem. Then I heard on the radio about sludge from secondary treatment plants often being barged to sea for dumping and that reminded me of once asking the guys wit the truck where the septic sludge was dumped - it goes into the pipe off Esquimalt (haven't heard much about that one compared to CLover Point). So if you ever have your septic tank pumped out (and it should be every couple of years to keep working properly) it ends up in the same place anyway.

[Fish]

I'll start by saying I dont like the idea of sailing in a sewage outfall any more than anyone else, however,

Kus, if you want septic and a well, along with the installation/maintenance costs, you can have it...you just have to move out to the sticks...it takes a lot of land and the right type of soil to absorb all that waste, and ensure one doesn't get into the other (a situation more likely to make folks sick). I think septic systems cost inthe range of $10-40,000 correct?

MF4 makes a valid point - pumped tanks and the stuff that gets filtered out at tretment plants. Where do you think it goes? It all has to go somewhere, and there is no such place as "away" There is no solution that is a clear winner when we stick several hundred thousand people in close proximity to one another....wait - less people is the solution..how do you achieve that?

When talking about dioxins, PCBs, heavy metals and other toxic stuff found in sea mammals, KSKK is right on the money - this is due to bioaccumulation and more likely to effect our health by eating lots of seafood than by our thrashing around in the water. I am very concerned about what this does to sea life though and the long term affects of this as ecologically speaking everything comes around full circle eventually.

Curiosity question...Richard/Ross. What are you guys planning on testing for?

[Ross]

Fish - At present we are planning on testing the fecal coliform count at our local sailing sites. We are searching for someone who can test for this right now. Ideally we we would like to test the waters that we sail in ( Dallas, Island veiw) weekly and then post the results. Then you can decide wether you want to enter the water or not.
As a 30 year user of the water off Dallas Road ,I know that the water quality is getting worse.The solutions aren`t simple .There is no easy fix.

[Guest]

Richard, the kiteboarder who spoke up at the CBC Victoria sewage forum yesterday about his contracting viral meningitis off of Clover Point, should definitely get in touch with Dr. Richard Stanwick, the Chief Medical Officer with the Vancouver Island Health Authority. Stanwick made headlines yesterday by proclaiming that the Victoria outfall pipes posed no public health risks, and that a sewage treatment plant would have no discernible benefit to public health.

[Fish]

Thanks Ross. This will certainly be interesting to folks if it can get up and running.

Fecal coliform is certainly an easy test do have done. You may also wish to look into enterococci as an alternate. Some folks think this is a more accurate indicator of seweage pollution in marine environements. May be more expensive though..don't know.

Next big questions are when, and where to sample (high tide, low tide, am, pm, windy vs. calm, at beach, in shore break, out in ocean - all of which will influence results), then deciding how to interpret results in some meaningful way. Keep us posted.

[KUS]

thx for that Fish, yes, the moving to the sticks part has occured to me but being where we are (kinda locked in) is what I meant about "not being a choice I can make" right now...yes, it does take a proper field and lots of land....wish I had some but then that's another story.
MF4- As far as pumping things out, I have been led to believe that flushing a rotten, nicely maggot unfested couple of lbs of hamburger into the system can reduce volume issues quite nicely. Common practice in some "sticks", never done it myself oh, and as well a lot of sticks have the $10 inverted and punctured bucket/tank septic field

BTW: I will contribute $$ to a wind-user driven testing initiative, lemme know how and to whom

[Voostra]

Maybe these guys?
http://www.cantest.com
Over in Vancouver... Looks like they do microbiology as well as metals, trace organics etc.

The test for coliform is easy, you just need the equipment. I know they do (or used to) do it as a lab for second year microbiology at U.Vic., maybe someone up there is a wind user and might be able to borrow the equipment to run a few tests gratis or cheap? I suspect they probably have the facilites out at IOS as well?

[Fish]

So Voostra is suggesting someone grow potential pathogenic organisms at home. Good idea. I hear Bin-Ladin's looking for the same kind of folks.

A better idea would be to look in the yellow pages under Laboratories - Analytical

[downwind dave]

anyone seeking heavy metal at abnormally high levels is welcome to test the cab of my truck.

[Voostra]

I meant borrow and use where it is.. besides, moving an incubator can be heavy work... The stuff needed to grow large amounts to use in any terrorist way is a little different than the stuff needed to do a test anyways...

I guess if you felt like it you could do it at home too.. all you really need is a propane torch, a microwave and your oven... I digress... If you came out with evidence garnered from that you'd probably get laughed away anyways, which is why I suggested Cantest..

[more force 4]

Hey, the fat droplets sheen at the outlet. I just realized, THAT is probably what makes the swell often so smooth and 'buttery' when you go WAY out at Cook. They used to have oilbags in lifeboats to have this same effect, stop the waves actually breaking, and smooth out the chop. (And I'm only half kidding - I used to think it was just from getting past the backeddy on a flood with a westerly)

[richard]

I second your comments on the sewage surface oil. I've kited from Cook down to Trial Island numerous times,.. you cant miss the change in surface texture. The oil slick rounds out the chop and offers a butter (shit?) smooth edging surface. I try to avoid this area, but at times it's too late and your in it (The guls are sure sign your gettng close to/in or in the slick).
I hold my breath and try to avoid getting sprayed until I'm back in "normal water".