snow kiteboarding
Hey Trav!
I very rarely post here but I felt like I've got to say something as I think I represent the mid-range here. I'm not a neubie yet I'm in no way an expert and don't have the experience as others here. That's why I don't post a lot. I'm too busy READING (listening) to all the great advice.
I've been surfing and snowboarding for years yet I was flapping around like a leaf on a windy day when I first started kiteboarding! Sorry, but not the same thing... Just be happy that you'll have the 'stance' mastered, you'll understand things like toe/heal edge and you'll know how to 'shift your weight' etc...
The key to this website, in my opinion, is to use the 'search' feature first with your questions. If they go unanswered, then post a question. I think some questions have been answered many times (sometimes by the same person) and the replies can, sometimes, be not as positive as you'd hoped.
Another trick is to look at who is actually posting the comment!! Did you notice that you got positive responses after the initial negative response??
The only problem is that you kinda snapped at the 'Legend' that was trying to give you sound advice all because of the negative response from that girl/guy correcting your wording of the sport. The 'Legend' is one of the 'good' guys!! Listen to him!!! Other's; don't even bother reading what they have to say... Use the 'search' button and you will see who's posts to read and who's to ignore. This post has great/positive responses from all but one. Somebody has to be 'that girl/guy'....
I very rarely post here but I felt like I've got to say something as I think I represent the mid-range here. I'm not a neubie yet I'm in no way an expert and don't have the experience as others here. That's why I don't post a lot. I'm too busy READING (listening) to all the great advice.
I've been surfing and snowboarding for years yet I was flapping around like a leaf on a windy day when I first started kiteboarding! Sorry, but not the same thing... Just be happy that you'll have the 'stance' mastered, you'll understand things like toe/heal edge and you'll know how to 'shift your weight' etc...
The key to this website, in my opinion, is to use the 'search' feature first with your questions. If they go unanswered, then post a question. I think some questions have been answered many times (sometimes by the same person) and the replies can, sometimes, be not as positive as you'd hoped.
Another trick is to look at who is actually posting the comment!! Did you notice that you got positive responses after the initial negative response??
The only problem is that you kinda snapped at the 'Legend' that was trying to give you sound advice all because of the negative response from that girl/guy correcting your wording of the sport. The 'Legend' is one of the 'good' guys!! Listen to him!!! Other's; don't even bother reading what they have to say... Use the 'search' button and you will see who's posts to read and who's to ignore. This post has great/positive responses from all but one. Somebody has to be 'that girl/guy'....
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juandesooka
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Hi Trav
Adding a word from another beginner ... I'm about 4-5 days in, did the trainer time, taken the lessons, etc. Just starting to get the basics down. I've yet to have my first real kitemare, but I know it's coming 'cause it does for everyone. Last time out, I got a little taste in getting my lines wrapped and having a few out of control loftings. That was in deep water, away from anything dangerous, and I knew what to do ... but it was pretty intense, feeling how powerful that wind is, and having absolutely no control over it.
This sport is different than the others I've been involved in, maybe similar to you, snowboarding, surfing, skating, in that the power comes externally and your control is limited. I think the closest analogy is horse riding, where you're trying to control a powerful beast, but if it spooks then it will do what it wants to and you can't do anything about it. Another might be motorcycle riding, if the bike had some random internal mechanism where it might go full throttle with little or no warning. Worst case probably won't happen ... but if it does, what are you going to do about it? How are you limiting the likelihood of it happening? How are you managing the downside risk?
That's the concern these people are showing for you ... because they've seen friends or friends of friends do this sport the wrong way and get maimed and killed ... no exaggeration. And I'm not intending to preach or be dramatic ... personally I think the risks are manageable and acceptable, but you have to be hyper aware and realistic of what can go bad.
Playing around on a 2m trainer on a snow covered field with no obstructions around -- no big deal -- like playing around on a skateboard, maybe you get a skinned knee. But if you're talking about taking out a real kite, in untested locations in winter winds (which I understand is much less predictable than summer thermals), as a beginner wanting to do your own thing and figure it out as you go ... that sounds super sketchy.
Do it the right way ... pay an expert to teach you how to do this safely, so that when you go do your own thing, you know what to expect and are ready for what might come your way.
Good times await, for me and for you, it going to be fun once we get this wired ... play safe!
Adding a word from another beginner ... I'm about 4-5 days in, did the trainer time, taken the lessons, etc. Just starting to get the basics down. I've yet to have my first real kitemare, but I know it's coming 'cause it does for everyone. Last time out, I got a little taste in getting my lines wrapped and having a few out of control loftings. That was in deep water, away from anything dangerous, and I knew what to do ... but it was pretty intense, feeling how powerful that wind is, and having absolutely no control over it.
This sport is different than the others I've been involved in, maybe similar to you, snowboarding, surfing, skating, in that the power comes externally and your control is limited. I think the closest analogy is horse riding, where you're trying to control a powerful beast, but if it spooks then it will do what it wants to and you can't do anything about it. Another might be motorcycle riding, if the bike had some random internal mechanism where it might go full throttle with little or no warning. Worst case probably won't happen ... but if it does, what are you going to do about it? How are you limiting the likelihood of it happening? How are you managing the downside risk?
That's the concern these people are showing for you ... because they've seen friends or friends of friends do this sport the wrong way and get maimed and killed ... no exaggeration. And I'm not intending to preach or be dramatic ... personally I think the risks are manageable and acceptable, but you have to be hyper aware and realistic of what can go bad.
Playing around on a 2m trainer on a snow covered field with no obstructions around -- no big deal -- like playing around on a skateboard, maybe you get a skinned knee. But if you're talking about taking out a real kite, in untested locations in winter winds (which I understand is much less predictable than summer thermals), as a beginner wanting to do your own thing and figure it out as you go ... that sounds super sketchy.
Do it the right way ... pay an expert to teach you how to do this safely, so that when you go do your own thing, you know what to expect and are ready for what might come your way.
Good times await, for me and for you, it going to be fun once we get this wired ... play safe!
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more force 4
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Trav
I'm mostly a windsurfer, I've had 4 kiting lessons and have had my own experience of just how easy a kitemare can happen. Search the web and you'll see lots of videos of what looks to be fantastic snowkiting fun that suddenly turns potentially fatal when they get lofted by updrafts. Mountains do some crazy things to wind -- ask any bush or heli pilot. By all means play around with a trainer, but don't even think about using a full-size kite in the mountains until you are expert.
Personally, I'm hoping for a good hard freeze with no snow on the south Island, with NE outflow winds. I know somewhere like Panama Flats off Interurban, a pair of skates, a helmet and knee pads, and a 3 m trainer would be an absolute blast and of minimal danger to myself or others. Even then, I wouldn't try and fly it on skates when its gusting over about 15 knots - even my trainer just generates way too much power if I dive it too fast in any more wind.
I'm mostly a windsurfer, I've had 4 kiting lessons and have had my own experience of just how easy a kitemare can happen. Search the web and you'll see lots of videos of what looks to be fantastic snowkiting fun that suddenly turns potentially fatal when they get lofted by updrafts. Mountains do some crazy things to wind -- ask any bush or heli pilot. By all means play around with a trainer, but don't even think about using a full-size kite in the mountains until you are expert.
Personally, I'm hoping for a good hard freeze with no snow on the south Island, with NE outflow winds. I know somewhere like Panama Flats off Interurban, a pair of skates, a helmet and knee pads, and a 3 m trainer would be an absolute blast and of minimal danger to myself or others. Even then, I wouldn't try and fly it on skates when its gusting over about 15 knots - even my trainer just generates way too much power if I dive it too fast in any more wind.
Trav, here some info/links on snowkiting talks on the island. Like you, when I started kiteboarding (well lets forget the wasted trying to learn 2002-2006 years), I was looking for an easier alternative to learn. Even bought and owned 2 mountain board (way more difficult than on water, injury as well!!!).
Your best/closest bet are:
- Green Lake in Whistler: (not consisten at all, so you could waste time and money going there (no wind or lake not frozen), but you can search on mainland forums and try to find info on snowkiting in the area)
- Hurricane Ridge: Only go after it close if you do go please. Seeing a snowkiter there while it is open with kids/familly playing around they might ban the sport at this location on the spot, don't be the one that is responsible for this. It close in March, condition and wind could be good for a good 3 weeks thereafter. Dont go before it open, wind will be too dangerous.
Also, wind is perpendicular to the hill, which means ~ 10-30 degree angle upward. Yes it does mean floaty jumps, but like MF4 had mentionned more chance of getting updrafted. Here are some pictures of the area -->
http://www.bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
You can also found other info somewhere on this website: -->
http://www.nwkite.com/forums/f-1.html
Some guy went there and posted his gps track so its definitively kiteable. Just search Hurricane ridge a couple of post might come up.
FORGET ABOUT ANY SOCCE FIELD/SCHOOL FIELD VICTORIA/ESQUIMALT/SAANICH AREA other than a trainer kite:
We google earth it, mapquest it, drove it, rode it. There is nothing.
Golf course Victoria: Tried it once, after 2 quick loft from the ground landed the kite and packed everything, not worth. Martin and Ryan had better chance in 2009 on the golf course but then they said it wasnt that fun/worth. Not enough snow anyway, not much space and it will be gusty more than likely.
Other soccer field/farm field (near IV for example) or School field.
I stop drove 4+ times in previous year when snowy/windy to potential spot, and each time gust were just too much, from 0 to 20 kts in 2-3 secondes. Inland wind going trough building is extremely bad...
Ryan and Dane tried a soccer field in Victoria, they also said it wasnt worth, pack everything not long after trying.
Chris (Foil Boy) and Martin tried the hill at cook street in 2008 I believe, but the wind was lightish S/SSE and not that gusty, a rare thing that happen here (mix with enough snow!). I dont think that they kited for long either.
Not sure about the place in Parksville/Port Alberni that might be good for anything above a trainer kite, but if its Parksville make sure it is flat terrain/ocean for a good 30-40 km downwind of you. Oh wait this is impossible, too many mountains on the west, too many buildings/little elevatiosn on land North/South. You would need a field right by the ocean, wind blowing from NNE and snow. Good luck with that.
Port Alberni is surrounded by mountains, there wont be any clear wind there.
Overall is just a call for disaster.
Now lets get into higher elevations:
- Mt Cokely area (Near Arrowsmith): Seem to have some clear cut but unfortunately it would be quite a trek to get there, on top of that will the wind be somehow steady or right direction?
- Beaufort Range: More than likely logging road gate will be close, if not logging road will be quite snowed in and I dont think any SUV Truck will get high enough. On top of this doesnt seem to have many good clear cut. Would there be enough snow to cover these "clear" cut full of wood pile debris. Too many "if".
-Mt Washington/Forbidden Plateau/Battleship/Mackenzie Lake:
For all except the old ski center at Forbidden Plateau, the wind is way too crapy/change direction strenght in a matter of secondes, too many mountains around. (yes people have tried it done the treck to see conditions and share data)
- The old ski lift near Forbidden Plateau (can't remember the name) had the best potential, but too small, wind wrong direction and just too dangerous:
Scroll down to post #9: --> http://www.bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
- I am pretty sure that Comox Glacier would be an ideal spot, but make sure you have lots of winter alpine experience under your belt (ski touring/camping), it is a hell of a treck (expose to avalanche as well).
I called different Helicopter company to see if they could drop people on it, but they all said they can't since it is in Strathcona Park. (never contact Strathcona Park office to see if they could do an exception but im sure they wont) lots of money for helo drop/pick up to, would suck if there was no wind.
- Nanaimo Lakes Old ski center and Cowichan Lake Area: Mt Service/ El Captain Mountain/ Mt Whymper: I now have an SUV that can bring me into these area but I don't think ill bother looking since more than likely wind would be very bad due to surrondings (mountains everywhere).
Well that is it. Ill be able to copy and paste this on the next person that asked about snowkiting on mid/south island. (will be a lot quicker)
2 more link with some info/questions on snowkiting on the mid south island -->
http://www.bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
http://www.bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
If you do explore these are please share info, but overall I don't think its worth the time due to the extremely small percentage of finding a spot suitable for snowkiting that doesnt involve lots of hours to get there.
Also there might be some spot on Mid - North part of the island? Maybe local will explore in the future.
Your best/closest bet are:
- Green Lake in Whistler: (not consisten at all, so you could waste time and money going there (no wind or lake not frozen), but you can search on mainland forums and try to find info on snowkiting in the area)
- Hurricane Ridge: Only go after it close if you do go please. Seeing a snowkiter there while it is open with kids/familly playing around they might ban the sport at this location on the spot, don't be the one that is responsible for this. It close in March, condition and wind could be good for a good 3 weeks thereafter. Dont go before it open, wind will be too dangerous.
Also, wind is perpendicular to the hill, which means ~ 10-30 degree angle upward. Yes it does mean floaty jumps, but like MF4 had mentionned more chance of getting updrafted. Here are some pictures of the area -->
http://www.bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
You can also found other info somewhere on this website: -->
http://www.nwkite.com/forums/f-1.html
Some guy went there and posted his gps track so its definitively kiteable. Just search Hurricane ridge a couple of post might come up.
FORGET ABOUT ANY SOCCE FIELD/SCHOOL FIELD VICTORIA/ESQUIMALT/SAANICH AREA other than a trainer kite:
We google earth it, mapquest it, drove it, rode it. There is nothing.
Golf course Victoria: Tried it once, after 2 quick loft from the ground landed the kite and packed everything, not worth. Martin and Ryan had better chance in 2009 on the golf course but then they said it wasnt that fun/worth. Not enough snow anyway, not much space and it will be gusty more than likely.
Other soccer field/farm field (near IV for example) or School field.
I stop drove 4+ times in previous year when snowy/windy to potential spot, and each time gust were just too much, from 0 to 20 kts in 2-3 secondes. Inland wind going trough building is extremely bad...
Ryan and Dane tried a soccer field in Victoria, they also said it wasnt worth, pack everything not long after trying.
Chris (Foil Boy) and Martin tried the hill at cook street in 2008 I believe, but the wind was lightish S/SSE and not that gusty, a rare thing that happen here (mix with enough snow!). I dont think that they kited for long either.
Not sure about the place in Parksville/Port Alberni that might be good for anything above a trainer kite, but if its Parksville make sure it is flat terrain/ocean for a good 30-40 km downwind of you. Oh wait this is impossible, too many mountains on the west, too many buildings/little elevatiosn on land North/South. You would need a field right by the ocean, wind blowing from NNE and snow. Good luck with that.
Port Alberni is surrounded by mountains, there wont be any clear wind there.
Overall is just a call for disaster.
Now lets get into higher elevations:
- Mt Cokely area (Near Arrowsmith): Seem to have some clear cut but unfortunately it would be quite a trek to get there, on top of that will the wind be somehow steady or right direction?
- Beaufort Range: More than likely logging road gate will be close, if not logging road will be quite snowed in and I dont think any SUV Truck will get high enough. On top of this doesnt seem to have many good clear cut. Would there be enough snow to cover these "clear" cut full of wood pile debris. Too many "if".
-Mt Washington/Forbidden Plateau/Battleship/Mackenzie Lake:
For all except the old ski center at Forbidden Plateau, the wind is way too crapy/change direction strenght in a matter of secondes, too many mountains around. (yes people have tried it done the treck to see conditions and share data)
- The old ski lift near Forbidden Plateau (can't remember the name) had the best potential, but too small, wind wrong direction and just too dangerous:
Scroll down to post #9: --> http://www.bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
- I am pretty sure that Comox Glacier would be an ideal spot, but make sure you have lots of winter alpine experience under your belt (ski touring/camping), it is a hell of a treck (expose to avalanche as well).
I called different Helicopter company to see if they could drop people on it, but they all said they can't since it is in Strathcona Park. (never contact Strathcona Park office to see if they could do an exception but im sure they wont) lots of money for helo drop/pick up to, would suck if there was no wind.
- Nanaimo Lakes Old ski center and Cowichan Lake Area: Mt Service/ El Captain Mountain/ Mt Whymper: I now have an SUV that can bring me into these area but I don't think ill bother looking since more than likely wind would be very bad due to surrondings (mountains everywhere).
Well that is it. Ill be able to copy and paste this on the next person that asked about snowkiting on mid/south island. (will be a lot quicker)
2 more link with some info/questions on snowkiting on the mid south island -->
http://www.bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
http://www.bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
If you do explore these are please share info, but overall I don't think its worth the time due to the extremely small percentage of finding a spot suitable for snowkiting that doesnt involve lots of hours to get there.
Also there might be some spot on Mid - North part of the island? Maybe local will explore in the future.
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more force 4
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There was a segment on snowkiting in Oregon on PBS a couple of weeks ago. Did anyone see the whole thing? Some very lofty jumps in between trees looked sketchy to me, but those guys have been doing it for years - but I only saw the end of the story. Looked fantastic, I can see the attraction, backcountry skiing/boarding with no climbing or snow machines.
Found a link, but you have to register to download the October 13 segment.
http://pressroom.opb.org/programs/oregon-field-guide/
Found a link, but you have to register to download the October 13 segment.
http://pressroom.opb.org/programs/oregon-field-guide/
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paulie_aus
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went for a walk around maple lake and wolf lake again today, not frozzen enough yet but the wind stayed steady @ 15knts, probs by the end of dec or start of jan should be, will let ya know how it goes. as for forbbiden at the top where the old lodge is dont bother, way to skeatchy and kids and familys around almost all the time, but at the bottom of the montain before you go up there is a road of to the right with lots for sale, they have been cleared and no building is going to start till next spring, will need abit more snow but think it will be good. i will take some photos and wind data for ya and let ya know how it is.
Mt, Coakly would be great except that once the snow starts to fly it gets tracked out by snowmobiles fairly quickly. Also you would need one once the snow becomes substantial.
I know of a large gravel pit in whiskey creek, enough snow and the right wind there would be more than enough room. (Not ozeros off the highway.) This pit was a location that Qualicum fish and game wanted to get for a all in one shooting range. I have glassed 700 yard shots there. Of course this would be very dependent on the right wind.
Teabag thanks for the tons of info. That was a great read. I'm leary of frozen lakes on the Island, unless in the higher alpine. Being that I am flying only a trainer (only kite in my quiver for now.) I'm mostly looking at some flat land fun anyway.
Thanks EVERYONE for input.
I know of a large gravel pit in whiskey creek, enough snow and the right wind there would be more than enough room. (Not ozeros off the highway.) This pit was a location that Qualicum fish and game wanted to get for a all in one shooting range. I have glassed 700 yard shots there. Of course this would be very dependent on the right wind.
Teabag thanks for the tons of info. That was a great read. I'm leary of frozen lakes on the Island, unless in the higher alpine. Being that I am flying only a trainer (only kite in my quiver for now.) I'm mostly looking at some flat land fun anyway.
Thanks EVERYONE for input.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Hi Trav,
Being that we live in a rain forest with lots of tall trees and mountains (which make gusty, swirly conditions), and the West coast doesn't typically get alot of snow, decent snowkiting locations are hard to come by. We do, however, get alot of wind, and if you're at all interested in kiteboarding on the water and being ready for the next summer season, I'd be happy to offer you a lesson. Located in Comox, I am the only kiteboarding school on the West Coast that teaches all year round. Gear is provided for lessons, and sold at discount prices to students. www.inflowencekiteboarding.com
The site is a work in progress but you'll find some info and my contact numbers there.
If snowkiting is still more your thing, I can suggest a couple of great instructors in Alberta and maybe you could make it your winter vacation for a week or two.
If you still want to try to learn on your own, expect it to take at least a year or two, with potential injuries, broken gear ($$), and embarassment, whereas an instructor could have you riding in just your 3rd or 4th session out.
Good luck with whatever you decide,
Sandra
Being that we live in a rain forest with lots of tall trees and mountains (which make gusty, swirly conditions), and the West coast doesn't typically get alot of snow, decent snowkiting locations are hard to come by. We do, however, get alot of wind, and if you're at all interested in kiteboarding on the water and being ready for the next summer season, I'd be happy to offer you a lesson. Located in Comox, I am the only kiteboarding school on the West Coast that teaches all year round. Gear is provided for lessons, and sold at discount prices to students. www.inflowencekiteboarding.com
The site is a work in progress but you'll find some info and my contact numbers there.
If snowkiting is still more your thing, I can suggest a couple of great instructors in Alberta and maybe you could make it your winter vacation for a week or two.
If you still want to try to learn on your own, expect it to take at least a year or two, with potential injuries, broken gear ($$), and embarassment, whereas an instructor could have you riding in just your 3rd or 4th session out.
Good luck with whatever you decide,
Sandra
