Wingfoiling Progression

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:05 pm

slake wrote:Regarding the HS1850 Foil Kit asides mast change I assume no one changed the recommended setup of TC60 fuselage and HS232 tail wing. Is that correct? Armstrong shows a few other options for the kit on their website but figure just go with the recommended setup, with possible mast length change.

Yes, just go with the TC60, 232 tail. The larger tail (300) will offer greater stability initially but the 232 is higher in performance (faster/looser). You can always experiment with different aftermarket tails later. The Armstrong tails even have a cutting guide on them to "chop" them down ( looser, less drag, but more yaw).

Regarding booms; I love the feel of a boom coming from a windsurfer background but the added weight penalty for drifting/waterstarting is a deal breaker. The loop handles on other wings sometimes are a pain if you miss the grab and crash, but you eventually adjust. If you simply want to mow the lawn, a boom is fine. Wings are still evolving so much. The Cabrinha handles look like the best solution to me.

grantmac · Post by **grantmac** » Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:07 pm

I would like a boom, the new Duotone looks like they are the perfect combination.

The mini boom I used on my Wasp was fantastic other than my temporary attachment wasn't very good and the existing fabric handles got in the way.

redbaron · Post by **redbaron** » Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:55 pm

The New Duotones look Slick!!

superdave · Post by **superdave** » Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:09 pm

Hey Slake, thanks for posting. I have an Armstrong 6'6" and love it. It's very stable, light, well constructed and well designed. I think there's quite a bit to like about the bottom shape, rail chines, deck pad center marks, adjustable tail kick, forward foil track etc. It also came with a very high quality bag for storage or travel. My 6'6" seems to be a bit of a magic machine for it's ease of use, especially if just touching down lightly or planting a rail on a turn. You often hear the splash but the board just bounces off the surface and happily stays on foil compared to my original Naish 7'6" which stuck to the water in similar situations. That said, the longer Naish gave me a chance to stay on the board if the event of overfoil (which generally happens a lot when your learning or riding a standard length mast in bigger swell as Windoc says) and the touching of the rails doesn't happen that much once you learn to stay high on the foil.

I think you'd really like either the Armstrong 5'11" or 6'6" (or the other boards, mentioned/suggested). If you're expecting to have lots of time on the water consider something smaller than Armstrong 6'6", but if you just want to get out in a wide range of conditions, accelerate your learning curve and/or fly a smaller wing, I think the 6'6" is the bomb.

I do have my old Naish board (no foil) and a Naish 5.3 m S25 wing of my buddies if you're interested in some used gear for learning. PM me. Cheers.

Windjunky · Post by **Windjunky** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:10 pm

I just got the Cabrinha x wing seems like a good compromise between boom and no boom easy to set up and fold up with boom feel also has harness points which are supposed to be well placed may try today although wind is not cooperating.

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:42 pm

Windjunky wrote:I just got the Cabrinha x wing seems like a good compromise between boom and no boom easy to set up and fold up with boom feel also has harness points which are supposed to be well placed may try today although wind is not cooperating.

I'd love to see the handles in the flesh; I've only seen videos of them. Look really well thought out.

slake · Post by **slake** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:41 pm

superdave thanks for the insights and offer. I might PM you if I'm really unable to order a board or wing. One thing that grabbed me reviewing this thread is on your very first post: "The falls and feeling of height of a 27.5" mast were everything I could handle at the beginning". Was leaning to get the 85 cm mast based on some recent posts but maybe 72 cm is not a bad place to start (Armstrong has even shorter beginner masts 45 and 60 cm). Also I might not qualify at the same "waterman" level as some of the other posters here (and certainly have no foil experience). That middle of the road mast length might be just the ticket.

superdave · Post by **superdave** » Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:02 pm

Slake you're asking great questions and they're difficult to answer but I'll try. Some of what I can offer is based on experience, some on information from videos and forums and some is probably just crap. Hopefully others will chime in if they have had a different experience or opinion - I'm learning a ton from these posts. If I were spending your money I'd go with the 85 cm mast out of the gate assuming you can just upgrade from say a stock 72 cm for reasonable $ and your using it in the ocean. There is a considerably different feel between the two mast lengths: shorter masts are more connected, more lively and are slightly easier to control pitch making them better for pumping, quicker turning and easier to ride high in the water column to reduce drag and the weight of water counteracting the lift force - all good things. If you were riding on a lake or on relatively flat water, 72 cm would likely be the most fun. The longer mast has a bit more of an SUV feel, takes more skill and energy to pump, but still turns plenty quick. The extra length becomes an asset when you're riding in or across larger swells - you can just relax a lot more and plow through rather than focus on maintaining a more consistent height above the water surface in order to prevent breaches. Same with turning, you have a larger margin for error which is really nice in texture.

Either choice is the right one for your first season of wing foiling. Maximum progression would be to start on the 72cm and likely transition to the 85cm. If you go the Armstrong route,I'd probably hit Windoctor up and see if he will part with his 72 cm mast once his 85 arrives and order yours with the 85 cm so you have the best of both worlds. I would stay away from anything shorter than around 65 cm except for the very first few flights and even then not necessary with some instruction or tips.

Don't worry about the crashes , my wife says you can't even feel 13 cm.

grantmac · Post by **grantmac** » Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:39 am

Get the 85cm.

Also the Duotone Slick looks fantastic, I hope they sell a bunch so I can find one for a decent price in a year.

smartang · Post by **smartang** » Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:23 am

I learned on a razor sharp 107cm mast as did many kiters a few years back. 85 is the ideal length for most winging. I can see big wave and racing wingers going closer to 100. You'll appreciate the extra 4" during porpoising.

Don't be afraid to check out other wing brands than duotone. Can your boom wing walk the dog?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKqb5osIARg/

smartang · Post by **smartang** » Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:31 am

Also, I like everything about the armstrong boards, don't even care that they're as expensive as a custom. But no bottom carry handle is a 100% deal breaker if you want to keep your foil and wing from touching anything other than air or water. Especially each other.

UnusuallyLargeRobin · Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:28 am

smartang wrote:Also, I like everything about the armstrong boards, don't even care that they're as expensive as a custom. But no bottom carry handle is a 100% deal breaker if you want to keep your foil and wing from touching anything other than air or water. Especially each other.

It's amazing anyone produces a foilboard now without a bottom handle. Such a nice feature!

grantmac · Post by **grantmac** » Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:00 am

People with Armstrong boards are reporting a lot of damage. I'll take durability.

Likewise F-one wings might do some things well but where the wing meets the hands IMHO is the critical thing.

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:33 am

grantmac wrote:People with Armstrong boards are reporting a lot of damage. I'll take durability.

Likewise F-one wings might do some things well but where the wing meets the hands IMHO is the critical thing.

I've looked for reports of Armstrong boards getting "a lot of damage". Can't seem to find any. Any links?

Tsawwassen · Post by **Tsawwassen** » Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:58 pm

Got my wing the other day and had my first session on Friday out at the Ferry Terminal. This is from my session log...

The wind was too light and I couldn't get up on the foil at first which was OK, it gave me a chance to learn how to steer the board and hold the wing. Things felt awkward at first and I was thinking this is kind of lame, then I popped up on the foil and it clicked! It's so fun!! Wind foiling strapless sure helped as when I got up on the foil it was similar. Can't wait to get back out and get into some waves!!

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