You hit it on the head dave, I am not yet part of your kiting community, yet i love taking pictures and have asked alot of the kiters about getting started. I was told wait till may, till the winds are not so gusty and all over the place. also I have had people recommend who and were to get taught by qualified instructors. As part of a community of scuba divers it always hurts to hear about a diver dying in the sport I love, esp when it was due to a stupid error. and you are right, accidents and death bring unwanted scrutiny and press, it has lost many great and fun dive sites. dave you are also right, if someone sees something not right, step in, help out, if they do not accept the help then you have done your part. the one thing I have learned by being on the water and under it, is that when you think you know it all, and are getting too confident then the sea gods will slap you in the head and bring you back down to earth, respect the sea and the winds.

Daves previous comments are all accurate I can confirm them. Sadly I convinced myself my friends previous flying performances would carry the day and was somewhat bewildered at his seeming loss of previous (but knowingly limited) skill. In spite of more than one red flag I proceeded and I do hold myself responsible, very poor judgment on that day. Something a will regret always. Most disappointing was how I never allowed myself to take on that much risk as a learner but did for him. Not sure what mindset got me there but it was nearly fatally flawed. Next time you want to teach some friends to kite be sure to call me I will let you know how much fun it is.


Reuben

Just want to say THANK YOU to Reuben for sharing the story. This thread may actually safe someone's life, seriously, and that wouldn't have happened if you had not spoken up on BWD.

I also echo Dale, TK, and Dave's comments, thank you and in fact everyone who has contributed to this thread. I think Dave is right in that we can no longer sit back like many of us have done shaking our heads. Yes, we are often ignored (rememeber Gray breaking his arms at Cook St.?) but we must keep at it or someone will actually be killed.

And though it may be harsh for Reuben on this thread, I don't think there are many who haven't, at some point while learning to kite or helping others that have made serious errors in judgement. I know I have. I seem to even recall Dave kiting (in his superstoked first summer) about a mile offshore (albeit 'forced' out there by dying winds on the inside) on a fluky WNW day at Cook, a bit far even for a super hero ;)

So, once again Reuben, thanks for sharing, and to all the others who have made some excellent points, in particular Dave.

Wishing good winds, and a happy, healthy kiting season for all!
Paul

I am not a Kiter, however I can definitely appreciate how sketchy some of these situations can get, after nearly getting knocked over like a bowling pin, as a girl was dragged down the beach at Nitinat this past summer.

I have to give Rueben huge props for sharing his story with humility and honesty, accepting more responsibility than I feel he needs to. It takes bigger balls to admit your fault and approach the issue head on as opposed to playing the blame game. Even with some pretty harsh (and perhaps appropriate) criticism, Reuben has avoided becoming defensive, instead admitting what went wrong. We all make mistakes but most of us fail to be so humble in light of our errors. Cheers Reuben, and get-well-soon to your friend.

I was there on the water when this happened and got parts of the view, but got filled in by Dave on the details shortly after. Thank you Dale, Paul, Jimmy, Reuben, Dave, and others for bringing all of the clear and gray areas to light.
I read that most people were referring as summer the time to learn and not winter. Well conditions are far more important than the time of year. Some can not afford it, but go south, or some where with a lot of room to practice and learn. If you have ANY problem controlling a kite or your self. DO NOT KITE ANY WHERE IN VICTORIA. Go to Nit Nat, La Ventana, The Gorge, I am sure you can name many more.

A lot of people that show up at Cook Street in the summer, get so caught up in the moment, that quite often rig up too fast, rig up the wrong gear (it does happen to all time to time), and launch without even realizing what direction or what the wind is actually doing.
I have had enough of people learning down town Victoria, and being heroes by proving to all that they can kite when they are not at the level they need to be to understand the consequences of there actions. I have been jumped on, cut off by kiters that can not control them selves nor there kite. Cook street is tight as it is, safety is hard enough for experienced kiters, let alone having beginners attempting to go out.
Most of us that have been kiting from the early 2000s understand the principal of non de-powering kites, and learned the hard way. Going through that either made you a great or better kiter, or made you give up because of the great risk of getting hurt. Kites have so much de-power now that I find kiters do not have the same respect for wind as they would if they did not have that option.
If you are new, or even 2 years into this sport, you need to sit back and listen, respect, and understand what we are trying to tell you.
This doesn't need to be a surfers mentality sport, but a lot of us are here to protect are beaches from being shut down, and if this kind of behavior continues, voices will be heard on the beach.
Ignorance can not be tolerated any more.
Thanks, Jordan

I do not even sail at KooK street any more because of all of the people who have no beach etiquette. Not to mention trying to rig up between the people who are learning .Not to mention the people trying to show off and jumping up wind of other kiteboarders and no knowledge of right of way "

Jordan- What are you talking ? Don't send anymore idiots to nitwit lake, that place is overrun with people that do not have a clue. Please keep all the no brainers at cook St. at least until it is closed, permanently. thanks Gene--------KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK SUPERDAVE.

So after living with with this latest accident experience for over a week I can tell you all it is still foremost on my mind. I have given significant thought to my actions and comments and others and have carried out further research to maybe find some solace or education to prevent this in the future. All of the following is in no way an attempt shirk my part in things but a few interesting thoughts and findings have come up.

First off for all you "experienced" kiters who feel that only new or novice people make mistakes. World kiteboard fatality statistics show that %45-56 of all kiter fatalities are to kiters with 4 or more years experience. Good for you to know. And also how about those helmets. Stats also show that helmets reduced deaths significantly, what a surprise there.

Regarding ones knowledge and ability to assist others. In know way do years experience equate to a safer kiter. Knowledge and skill are different for everyone. I am pretty sure some of you veteran guys have never even read a fraction of the safety literature out there relying simply on your TOW as a learning tool. How about we train doctors by practical experience only. Does that sound good to you ?

Did you also know to be an IKO instructor (which I am not) you only need one single year kiting experience. And by IKO lesson curriculum the student is released to control the kite on their own in 2-4hrs of total training including trainer kite, technical instruction and power kite.

Here are a few quotes I recently found on other kite forums

quote:

"Just because there might have been operator error doesn't mean that these accidents aren't real. Jesus how many of auto accidents in hindsight are from operator error ....probably all. I know everyone here thinks they are safer,smarter, better looking , etc than every other dead kiter. But the fact is a lot of pros have died. This whole mentality to think oh good it was operator error well i'm always safe,smart,etc it can't happen to me is ridiculous."

quote:

"I challenge anyone here that has been kiting a while to come forward that hasn't ever been in a "bad hairy situation that could have gone really bad". Kiteboarding is dangerous but just because someone died from it doesn't make them stupid or reckless. You safety guys(well i wear a helmet,impact vest and never go out in gusty conditions or winds above 8kts) are just arrogant and it get nauseating."

rebuttal quote:

"The keys to avoiding bad choices are understanding, appreciation and good technique. None of this comes in a vacuum or with indifference.

I've made quite a few bad choices over the years and have tried to learn from them as opposed to ignoring them.

All these accidents are totally real with harsh lasting consequences not only for the victim but many more.

Riders can use impeccable judgment and technique and still suffer a severe accident. That is the nature of life and accidents. One thing is for sure though, that approach should see far fewer accidents and that is the goal."


In summation of my recent event I have concluded the following occurred. The accident was very preventable and with better judgement would simply not have occured. However unlike some people think this was not a case of ignorance or deliberate disregard for safety all judgements occured due to events leading up to that moment and I would suggest could happen to anyone.

The mental process goes like this. After cautiously being introduced to kiting a number of times the victim was anxious to proceed to the next step of water entry. After some deliberate delay we both decided that when a day of moderate wind arrived we would work towards that nest step. In other words both of us had in our heads that when more wind arrived he would set up and head to the beach with some further instruction. His kite skills seemed good and this seemed like a logical direction to head. I knew the risks but was satisfied with his current skill level and felt if things were not right on the given day We could simply stop.

The day arrived, he rigged himself up in preparation and I came off the water to assist. What happened next was the accident but why did I not stop at any of the red flags? I have now realized the two major things that happened to prevent good judgment. The first I mentioned, We had a preconceived plan/vision of what would play out. This had already been played out mentally and simply needed to be followed through on. We were already heading down the wrong path.

The second action leading to the error was me having come off the water to assist. I liken this to when you spend a few hours driving on the highway and then enter the city and find yourself speeding when you normally would not, a strange trick your mind plays on you. After I left the water I was not really in touch with the risks/challenges facing a learner. My state of mind was in fact over confident and complacent if not a little high on adrenaline. The winds were no challenge for me and I unintentionally projected that onto the learner.


The intent of me writing this likely last post on this particular incident is to let people know that poor judgment and accidents are not only the realm of morons, newbies or the young. Some of you have made fairly negative posts chastising me for my ignorance and I can tell you that could not be further from the truth. If you took the time on the beach to know me you would find out the strength of my knowledge and lifelong history of safety conscious activity and training. In the future please keep all comments constructive. Unless you personally know the individuals you are not in a real position to pass judgment.

So next time we see something wrong on the beach please safely intervene, it may save a life.

Reuben Mitchell

Ok once again here goes,

This post is in response to Ruebens last post. i apologize as I do not recognize your name or equate it to a face, so if we have met, my apologies. However even though it seems I do not know you I do feel I have a right to comment, how you interpret it is up to you.....my purpose is not to point a finger but rather share information and offer my observations/knowledge.

I am of the same mind as Kite Kook in the respect that it must have took alot for you to come forward with your incident and share it candidly, for which your recieved both good and harsh critism and I do tip my hat to you.

My opinion on all this is that all accidents are preventable, most occur due to improper equipment, lack of experience/training, poor attitude and combinations of all of the above.

I want to focus on attitude. I personally have been kiting since the very early 2000's and have watched kiting grow since 1999 at Nitinaht lake. I can truly say I have seen this sport evolve, both in equipement and instruction. I strongly feel experience equates to knowledge which equates to the abiltiy to make sound decisions which equates to a better and safer waterperson, so I disagree with you that experience doesnt make you safer. Of course we all do silly things that have the potential to turn out really badly, but with experience you have a better ability to gage that potential and weigh the risks.

Your right, just because someone is an instructor doesnt make their ability to teach or convey proper sailing any better than joe blow other than that they have a system in place for them to follow to "hopefully" ensure their students get the skills they need to BEGIN their sailing experience. I feel that due to better and safer gear, availability of training equipement (trainer kites, dvd's, magazines etc), and quality instruction peoples learning curves to be able to get up and stay up wind are typically are very quick. This is fantastic for the growth of the sport but comes at the cost i feel to a lack of respect of the "potential" this sport has for serious and grievous injury to themselves or others around them, almost to a point of arrogance. I do feel I have a right to comment on this as I have witnessed 11 years of summers at Nitinaht kiting and this year the arrogance and disregard to "experienced" kiters when they would step up to offer their advice was unreal. I myself stepped in a number of times this last summer and my most memorable occassion was when i was told to #@$@! off. I may have come accross a little gruff as I was freaked out by what I had just witnessed. This person basically told me to 2#$@# off and mind my own business, they were good kiters and knew what they were doing, this person had been kiting for less than a year. Sadly it was very clear to me thoughout this last summer a turning point had been reached, where respect to the locals that "know" the area was basically thrown out the window. I will acknowledge there are natural athletes out there that learn fast and "get it", people out there with responsible attitudes and alot of very good natured/friendly people as well, but like most things we tend to remember the negative, and what I remember from this last season was the change of attitude on the beach (which included myself after that encounter). I think that I am not alone in this observation and maybe that is why more of us "local and experienced" kiters have weighed in and commented.

I am sure I could come under fire as well for doing silly things from time to time, but I will say that I do draw from experience and from that experience weight the consequenses and if I feel those consequences have a unreasonable risk attached I do not engage.

As for your doctor reference, I would say experience is definately the best here as when you pull up to the beach, feel and listen to the wind, look at the sky, look at the water, the trees, what others are doing, you pull all that info into yourself, use your experience to make a decision on what to do, no book can teach you that. Looking at weather forecasts, pressure gradients, etc etc definately allows you to decide where to go and when, but when you get there, getting real life data is the only thing I think you should be drawing upon to make a decision on whether you should go out or not.

Safe sailing, and happy times....

btw IV beach is where I have my most "memorable spanking" as I got lofted on the beach from a gust that came outa no where, the wind was approx 12 knots and I had come in due to I couldnt make a go of it, a gust measuring 27 knots came through (friend on beach had a wind guage set up for the day)...I was on my 16 bronco. The only thing that saved my butt was the the fact I steered the kite toward the water fast and hit my eject as I was propelled through the air and into the water..of course after bouncing twice down the beach. I came out of that with bruised heels. I havent sailed IV since, although i do want to go there again : )

Dale

kitesurferdale wrote:IV beach is where I have my most "memorable spanking" as I got lofted on the beach..I was on my 16 bronco... propelled through the air and into the water..of course after bouncing twice down the beach. I came out of that with bruised heels

from doing the superman helping another guy launch to watching horror crashes to getting freaked myself when gusts power up the larger kites...been there. I remember when Mr. Bulgarian dude missed the grater by inches at Mach2 after slipping upwind. IV is often light so the larger kite works and IV is recommended as a learning beach by many. To me with the logs, powerline, road, trees, slick grass, people grater and picnic tables and those wonderful barnacles at lower tide, all the people!! I dunno. As a learner I would recommend the pilgrimage to upisland Roland? and the like or Tugwell over IV. Again rating beaches seems to me a common thread and maybe experienced (& conservative) kiter input into the WIKI is critical Guys have encouraged me to launch at Kook, thx for the vote but I still don't feel I'm ready for the downwind hole, reef, kelp & updrafts...and newbie traffic which scares me at the Nat often into not even trying it. A few more light Gordo & Nat days perhaps

Tugwell is NOT a beginner kiting spot ... Gusty & deceivingly strong west winds , rocks , trees & cabins are down wind !!! Once a kiter can self launch from the water & is comfortable ejecting & proficient @ self recovery then Tugwell could be considered ... Back to Island view ... Light s.e. thermal winds (clear days) blow before the west wind develops in Juan de fuca ... Newbies are advised to practice down wind off the sand bars & in the water preferably with a buddy ... Frontal s.e. winds with winds doubling unannounced (as wind doubles force goes up x 4) are not days for newbies ... A good rule of thumb is if kiters & windsurfers are on the water it's too windy for beginners to land fly full size kites !!! p.s.: DO NOT launch kites around non kiters & If you are land kiting move away from people transiting the area ... Unfortunately weekends & holidays may be too crowded for newbies to practice.

Learning on large kites is wrong, anything bigger than 8 meter should not be used,.
There is Sooo many thing you have to look out for when teaching someone. and only that when and qualified instructor is Next to the student .
is best due to the fact they can read everything they are doing wrong.
And when i see people at the beach even with experience they do things that should not be done. For instance" Holding The Kite Over Head" IS BAD"
I am sure also that almost everyone learning to kiteboard on there own have no idea how to even tune a bar""Line Length"
Having an Proper instructor will cut you learning curb into a fraction of what it will take to learn on your own.
You will learn everything you will need to know and experience and learn everything in a controlled manner.
You will save you KIte"
It is like the lessons are for free because you are trashing the school kites.
You will get hours of quality water time with an instructor who is on your shoulder telling you what you are doing wrong.
The best learning time is actually on the water and not on land. .
If something goes wrong like the weather changes to beyond you level
you have an instructor to save you ass, comfortably and you learn from you experience.
You learn how to save your self in many ways.
Anyway "
Only some reasons to take lessons.
For those learning you should pay the small fee for at least 1 day and try it"
Peace" Happy sailing. I'm going fishing:)

I know what you mean A.C. but a little proof reading & re-write wouldn't hurt !!! p.s. Having observed your first few sessions I must say this is a case of : " Do as I say, not as I do." (did ?)

Hey easy JL, let us not start any more strife. I think what AC was saying is that professional lessons are a great idea. A point that is pretty hard to argue. On another note I have been thinking of bringing a chain saw to the lake to remove the massive stump/kite killer. Has it not nearly killed enough people to warrant removal ?? Any thoughts on the idea. A work crew could make short work of it. Any volunteers with saw experience ?


Reuben

Go fly a kite, ya hmm. 12 square meters, I think some airplanes don't have that much wing area. I know, lets put that kite up in the air on a bunch of string, now lets hook ourselves up. The icing -- a nice little board with sharp rails. Now, in my opinion, that contraption has more options for serious injury or death than most sports. I have been around kiting for a long time, seen a lot, read a few kiting blogs from time to time, just to see what is happening in other areas of the world.

Nothing warms my heart more than to see the kiting gurus starting to get at each other. Nice of you all to come on BWD and give us all your opinion, but what has anyone done on the ground.
JL, AC, 57Palm, KSD, KiteKook, BK, otisdadog etc.
Well the answer, I believe, is ZERO. Dale is starting to see the picture, at last. I have been told where to go and how to get there many times by kiters because i confront them, not because I dislike kiting, quite the opposite, It"s the stupid behaviour, the lack of respect and the DANGER to me and others around me, that makes me crazy. If you guys don't get out of your armchairs and start some serious self policing, rule making, and yes agro surfer style tactics, It will only be a matter of time before you will lose your beaches and rights.

Beaches are being closed all over the world, you think it won't happen here, well just keep sitin on those hands.
Gene

Oh I got a lot more to say