US Box vs Power Box vs Jack in the box - is one better?

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:58 pm

I've searched all over the internet and can't find an answer, except that Jack in the Box gives you food poisoning.

I am looking at picking up a 80-90L FSW board either on my Maui trip in 3 weeks or just after. This size seems to be on the cusp of where boards transition from US Box to Powerbox. Any real reason to show preference for one or the other? My 110L is PB, so I figured it might be nice to share fins, but then again maybe my smallest fin for the 110L is too big for a 80L board.

Also, along the same theme; At 6ft 185 lbs, and with keeping the 110L board, what size is reccomended keeping in mind I won't be able to afford another board for AWHILE; and I will plan to use it on most 5.5m and smaller days around Victoria and perhaps up island, and the west coast hopefully one day as well.

I've got my eye on the AHD and RRD FSW boards, now if I could just decid which one has the catchier, more high performance graphics I'd know which to buy.

Advice apprieciated as always.

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:47 pm

Powerbox Pros: Stronger than US box, tight fit without need for shims, quick in/out, flush to water flow.

PB Cons: No fore/aft adjustment to tune ride characteristics of board, risk tearing box out of board with collision on reefs, etc

US Box Pros: Fore/aft adjustment, lighter (marginally). Fin tab breaks and spares board from excessive damage if you ground it on a reef, deadhead, etc.

US Box cons: Sometimes fussy to fit box (need shims etc), fin tabs often a bit fragile (could be a plus if you hit something hard enough). US boxes themselves will sometimes be a source of stress cracks (especially with big, high leverage fins!) leading to water ingress. Don't know if Powerbox has this issue.

I like the idea of being able to adjust fins fore and aft. It can make a HUGE difference in how a board sails, but my 95 L Goya has a PB and it rides just fine. Just depends on how much you like to experiment and tune your gear.

It is a smart idea to try to build a board quiver that allows you to swap fins, as fins ain't cheap!

Regarding the step down from your 110 L board for 5.5 and under sailing, I'd recommend an 85 L Freestyle Wave - type board. The Starboard Kodes, RRDs, Goyas, Naish, etc are all very nice FSW boards.. You could likely pick one of these up in Hawaii for cheap if it is last year's board or older.

Chris

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:34 pm

Chris - could you please define what you mean by cheap so I know a deal if I see one.

I notice Isthmus and Windance have the 08 RRD FSW's on for about $1200 USD.

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:57 pm

Cheap would be $800-$1200 USD (still in bubble wrap or at least unused).

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:56 pm

Any idea who rents/sells RRD in Maui? Haven't been able to come up with anything from RRD's website or google. Thanks.

KUS · Post by **KUS** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:59 pm

What Doc said, I thought I would never use the A box adjustment but when I have yes there is a huge diff.....then again when u like a particular spot u tend to keep it there. so the box gets worn in that area and ends up getting sloppy. The reason for the Abox used to be the space you have in a pintail to fit the powerbox and the fin move thing secondarily (I would think). I certainly prefer the PB and will order my OES with it in the 82 special order. In 80 and smaller boards u tend to only find A's. In my view A boxes suck hard in comparison....but then u don't have to feel that way

As far as damage and tabs: the one time I used a fin saver tab the f^&%in g thing let go and I lost my fin cuz the back torqued off....and got to bodydrag in winter from way offshore, not fun. I have hit solid things like tops of reefs and tree trunks and have gone over the handle bars but never blew out a P-finbox....now having said this I guess I better take care out there

more force 4 · Post by **more force 4** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:07 pm

I think you'll find an 80 - 85 L board will do you once it gets windy enough. My Evo 80 I find very floaty, and easy to slog so long as there's about 12-15 knots or more. It will take a 5.8 sail OK, which would be a good overlap with what you want to sail the 110 l board to. A freestyle wave is probably even more forgiving. I think the Evo is a 2005 or so design, I bought it new but a couple of years in the warehouse for about $900 or so I think it was. You can probably pick up a used board in Maui for peanuts - or a $100 'gift card' account at a local eatery and trade it to some starving Frenchman who only sails 75L and down now anyway

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:32 pm

So for all around sailing lets take a poll, less volume 80L or go with the bigger size of a 90L or thong the difference with a 85L right up the middle. Cast your votes now! Oh, I should mention, I'd rather not have to drag both boards with me everywhere, so it has to be versatile enough, but not too much that the 110L is useless.

KUS · Post by **KUS** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:44 pm

20L is a huge jump down from the 110 grasshoppa, as I said you will probably want to own both a ~90 and ~75 eventually. But it will also take a while to learn the 87-95L and the new boards can take more wind and are easier to get through the onshore waves with. Spend the money on the regular use board, not the once a blue moon storm board.

Geoffy · Post by **Geoffy** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:00 pm

Check Hawaiian Island (used to carry them a while back) for RRD rental. See Randy's Maui 2009 log for his most used kit even though you're going in more trades season. And Kus is right, 90-95L at your size and stage is a great bet. Excellent Nat board almost always, get 3 fins around 23, 25, 27 cm and the board range will be excellent. Fin change first then sail change works well for me. And the 23/25 cm ones will work on 75-80L boards with 4.0-4.5 sails

windsurf247 · Post by **windsurf247** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:19 pm

I vote for slightly bigger ~ 90L +/-. Like Kus said, that's a huge jump from 110L. I'd say once you're comfortable on a 90L board, then look for something smaller. You'll still use the 90L all the time though.

I'm the same size as you and if I only had 80L and 110L boards I'd be wishing I had something in between. I'd say a board in the 90L range is a staple for most spots around here.
Happy shopping

windsurf247 · Post by **windsurf247** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:39 pm

Just thought of something else. I had an interesting opportunity to do a head to head board test on our trip this winter to Cabarete. We got a windsurfing package from a resort that featured brand new JP FSW boards.

Over the course of our trip, I tried the entire range, sometimes 2 or 3 in the same day. I would jump from a 109L down to a 103L, down to a 93L and one day an 85L. There was a HUGE difference in each of those boards. Even a change of 6-8L felt like a totally different board.

Don't be fooled into thinking that a 90L or even 95L board will be too close to your 110L board. It's a huge jump.

In terms of fins, I like Powerbox. I don't like to fiddle with my gear too much. I'd rather just slap it in and go. I've got PB for both my boards which makes life easier as well.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:40 pm

Hawaiian Island is JP, Naish and Starboard, so the RRD search is still fruitless... Thanks though!

W247, I too hate messing with stuff and that is why powerbox seemed like a better choice to me. Sounds like the contenders are 85L and 90L. Since that RRD board (and seems some other options too) are US at 85L and PB at 90L, I think 90L has got a leg up.

winddoctor · Post by **winddoctor** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:10 pm

At the risk of not getting any bubble wrap, I've got to respectfully disagree with Rob and the others

. Sure, looking at purely the volume, 110 to 85 L is a big jump. But when you look at the sail range for both boards, it's a very versatile 2 board quiver. There is way too much overlap on the light wind side with a 110 L board and 95 or even 90 L board. Nanmoo wants the second board to work with 5.5 and smaller sails. This is the perfect transition point for a reasonably wide and stable FSW like the RRD FSW 85. I've ridden an 85 L RRD FSW of BWD's that planed very early (earlier than my Goya 95); it was no "rare windy day" board and it would still hold in there into the 4.5 weather no problem. There is no need to step down in such small increments from your 110 L board (which I have personally sailed).

Nanmoo is still in the early stages of the highwind windsurfing learning curve, but he is rocketing up as fast as I've seen anyone do. He's already in the straps and harness, nailing waterstarts, and likely nailing pushies by the time his Maui trip is over

. He doesn't seem to need the baby steps the rest of us have likely taken over the (ahem) years we've been learning how to windsurf.

Extra volume mainly gives you more "float". If you plan to slog lots, then volume is your friend. That's where 110 L comes in. When you want to stay in control in 20 plus knots, your 85 L FSW will be perfect (and will still be possible to slog with minimal wind) without feeling like a tiny, skittish wave board.

The other guys have made good points. I just thought I'd add another angle to view things from.

nanmoo · Post by **nanmoo** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:59 am

Chris is tipping me towards the 85L but the only thing I don't like about it is the US Fin Box. Btw - thanks for the flattering words and actually I have challenged myself to land some sort of hopefully-upside down cool trick by fall.

Anyways, it comes down to 5L substituting for the US Box. Decisions, Decisions...

US Box vs Power Box vs Jack in the box - is one better?

US Box vs Power Box vs Jack in the box - is one better?

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