Windsurf foiling

grantmac · Post by **grantmac** » Sun May 03, 2020 8:09 am

C and tips up.

tempy · Post by **tempy** » Sun May 03, 2020 8:31 am

Definitely tips up.

The position of the switch fuselage is going to depend on the board and where your footstraps are relative to the mast, and also where your ( sail) mast foot is.

I have been frankenfoiling so am making converted boards work.

What board are you on? that will make a difference.

AJSpencer · Post by **AJSpencer** » Sun May 03, 2020 8:42 am

Slingshot Dialer 145. In C position, the wing is about in between where the footstraps would be (I only have front footstraps in right now, which are all the way forward and inboard).
Sounds like rear wing was my main issue. I’ll start with mast base mostly back again next time and see.

I wonder if using my wave sail is a bad idea? It kind of loads up big and then in any lull is goes totally flat, which I guess are attributes of a great wave sail, but I’m thinking those big changes of force will make it really hard to stay balanced once up on foil?
I was thinking the 5.1 cammed Sailworks old race sale with outhaul to flatten it a bit may be more consistent.

tweezer · Post by **tweezer** » Sun May 03, 2020 9:27 am

AJ, with respect to sails, yes try your cammed 5.1!
The wave sails lack the low end power that is nice on the foil. Since the foil is more efficient, there is less force (less apparent wind) required to keep it flying and the wave sails tend to flatten out once you are flying. I didn't like the digital feel of a wave sail foiling - it's either full or flat. It makes it difficult to feather your sail power and maintain a light touch on your feet at the same time. I used my old slalom NX 6.6 full cammed until it blew up from age. I bought a flyer 4.5 and love that for the 18-25 knot range. Now I use my retro 6.0 for the 12-18 range. The retro keeps it's shape pretty well. I use adjustable outhauls on all of them.
To put my sail size and wind ranges into context, my current foil setup is a Starboard team set and most of the time I use 800cm2 front, 255cm2 rear, 115cm fuselage, 95cm mast. The 800cm2 front is much smaller than the slingshot 76 (1534cm2), so it requires more sail to get it started - I'm guessing a full metre2 more for the same conditions. Instead of buying another 6.5 or 7.0 i'm going to try a larger front wing first. I've ordered a 1000cm2 front to try...
Cheers,
Tweezer (Mark)

AJSpencer · Post by **AJSpencer** » Sun May 03, 2020 9:37 am

thanks tweezer

tempy · Post by **tempy** » Sun May 03, 2020 9:45 am

If you are using an actual slingshot board, I would email the Brand Manager, Wyatt Miller with your questions - he will get you “ Dialled”.

He is super helpful and will get you sorted out.

grantmac · Post by **grantmac** » Sun May 03, 2020 10:02 am

Rig minimum downhaul to get better shape from wave sails. I foil with HSM Qu4ds all the time like that.

KUS · Post by **KUS** » Sun May 03, 2020 12:16 pm

grantmac wrote:Rig minimum downhaul to get better shape from wave sails. I foil with HSM Qu4ds all the time like that.

yes i would suggest the 3 and 4 batten sails like that or the Fringes are nothing but low end...and your KA should bag very nicely....if not I think you are using the wrong mast, try a 400! Or you got outhaul, try minus 1cm

tempy · Post by **tempy** » Mon May 04, 2020 7:43 am

Here are some Wyatt videos on the gear:

https://youtu.be/psqjo2_Q2bE

https://youtu.be/jC5-KlJHbFU

https://youtu.be/LZrxr5RrTlk

https://youtu.be/lXA2vC2o91g

And I highly recommend the free Slingshot foil academy videos.

In the beginning it is hard to tell whether it is the setup that is wrong, or your technique.

AJSpencer · Post by **AJSpencer** » Mon May 04, 2020 9:03 am

KUS wrote:
grantmac wrote:Rig minimum downhaul to get better shape from wave sails. I foil with HSM Qu4ds all the time like that.
yes i would suggest the 3 and 4 batten sails like that or the Fringes are nothing but low end...and your KA should bag very nicely....if not I think you are using the wrong mast, try a 400! Or you got outhaul, try minus 1cm

Never thought of doing negative outhaul, always take it in to at least zero. Will give it a try.
I think I do use a 400 with 20+cm extension for it.
This was the first time I think I got enough downhaul on, as before I couldn't get the top battens off the mast. Thanks to some old thread from Nanmoo I think I saw I needed to bring it right down to the board level.
Will play around with less downhaul next time, but will give the old 5.1 sailworks a try next time out.
Definitely a nice looking sail for power. When it got hairy ~20knot out there, and I got my weight back against the sail it was like reining a wild horse, all power and taking me for a ride. Will be a nice planing sail in over 15. Kaotic!
Thanks for the advice guys.

AJSpencer · Post by **AJSpencer** » Wed May 06, 2020 8:04 pm

So my experience on the foil today, which was brief, was that as soon as I started getting some good speed and the board started to come up, I was suddenly pulled into a broad reach and I was picking mad speed until the foil came out of the water. behind me and I went for a front flip.
For that one I was too in awe at my speed to attempt a course change. But for another foil/almost foil, again I was on a broad reach and was trying to alter the course upwind but it didn’t seem to matter what I did with the rig, she just tracked on down.
Does this problem ring a bell?
I guess maybe my body weight was too far forward.

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Wed May 06, 2020 10:50 pm

AJ I have a similar foil setup, Dialer 145L and Infinity 84. I can tell you what's working for me...

The difference in setups is that I use a short (SUP) fuse and the larger 48cm rear wing (which mounts tips down). I've haven't tried it with the 42cm rear wing yet but I did play around with the long fuse and 48cm rear wing last summer and found the short fuse was better with that combo.

Either setup should work to get foiling in a straight line though...

You say that you're getting good speed and then the board comes up..you really don't need to go that fast to get foiling, the 84 lifts very quickly. Do you have your front foot in the strap as soon as you start moving forward? Make sure you put it in the strap immediately as soon as you sheet in and the sail starts to pull. That should be the correct placement to balance the foil.

As for the back foot, if you can get the heel on the rail you can pump the foil a bit to get it to lift. Once you are foiling you can move it around to balance. I use hoof hooks on the back to make it easy to slide the back foot around. When I started I didn't use any rear straps to maximize the quick ejection factor. To get going try putting the back foot just in front of the front (foil)mast screw hole.

My mast base is about an inch forward from the centre of the track.

If you feel like you are rising too high shift your hips forward towards the front of the board to push the wing down. Hips are the key to controlling the lift.

Over 17-18 knots things get a bit hairy, I have an infinity 76/42cm setup that is stuck at a UPS depot somewhere, I'm hoping that will work well for higher winds.

more force 4 · Post by **more force 4** » Wed May 06, 2020 11:28 pm

BigD I think you mean the foils's mast front screwhole? Its confusing having an up mast and down mast!

AJ, you should be able to get foiling on about a beam reach unless there isn't enough wind, when you may have to go broad, but you have a big floaty board and front foil? The rig positioning front to back or sheeting angle has little effect on a foiling board, other than you'll throw the angle of attack off and causing porpoising/foil out crashes as the overall weight/centre of effort moves in front of and behind the wing. Better to keep the rig neutral fore-and-aft till you are stable. Concentrate on the back foot pressure and moving it just a little to control the foil lift and stability. Turning will be almost 100% using banking angle of the board/foil. Get going on a beam reach (broad if less wind), get stable then use your knees and hips to bring your weight towards the centre, pressuring your toes, to turn downwind or lift the toes and keep the weight over the rail to turn upwind. Make tiny movements at first!

Once headed up wind you can concentrate on getting your feet over the rail and really sheeting in to foil upwind at speed - you may have to hang outboard more,

AJSpencer · Post by **AJSpencer** » Thu May 07, 2020 5:49 am

Thanks a lot guys.
Didn’t have my front foot in strap. Was worried about being on the rail and sinking it so thought on a broad reach I’d get my weight inboard. I think when I sheeted in to try to come up is when I went flying. Next time I’ll get that front foot in first.
I was consciously trying to get myself aft but it seemed like under 15 knots the tail would sink and I’d basically stall the foil/brake. I had 5.1 sailworks old racing sail but maybe too depowered. It was also hard to judge the wind as it may have been 10 knots or less at some times but still whitecaps because it was W all day long, so maybe lighter than I thought.
I have the deviator installed which means the mast base needs to be aft of center as the deviator (at least this old one I have) has nubs that stick into the track. But as you say, it didn’t seem to have much of a difference when I had it forward vs aft, though it may have felt a bit better aft.
Thanks again. Foot straps early and maybe a more consistent wind have allowed a more beam reach vs broad.
Thanks again.

tempy · Post by **tempy** » Thu May 07, 2020 8:35 am

Not to bang on the old drum, but if you haven't checked out the Slingshot foil Academy tutorial, give it a shot. It has a series of videos that show you how to progress. It made all the difference for me.

https://www.foil-academy.com/

Free - just requires a sign in, and it tracks your progress.

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