juandesooka wrote:windows...I tend to agree. I have only used wings with windows a few times, I found the windows are often not where I need them anyway, limited help. But they do help a little.

I am used to winging without many other riders around. When there's lots, and especially when there's kites and windsurfers, the risk of collision is much worse, as our trajectories are different. The wing blind spot is huge. Situational awareness is key....a shoulder check is a must before gybing (which is obvious in kiting, but have to get used to it for winging now).

I also had a close call with a boat at Billings Spit, did not see it coming up at speed, as it was directly downwind with my wing in the way.

Anyways, I think windows' positives are worth the negatives.

Yep totally agree Juan. At the moment it's pretty wide open where we are, but summers coming and the water gets busy. A shoulder check is a must in all watersports with a transition or trick, especially now with all those stealth foils sneaking up behind you silently!!

The big difference with the wings (for me anyway) is I'm now always blasting along then ..squirrel! ..er wave and crank off downwind on it, a recipe for disaster with a no look in crowds. I'm imagining when Nitnat finally gets going again and all I (and every other winger) want to do is cut a swath downwind through all the lawnmowers. It's going to get messy.

I found windows in sails kind of blurry and never really trusted them would always take a quick look around the boom to make sure no one was around. Also read that windows should not be folded or creased so the wings without pack up smaller which is nice for carry on to maui if we ever get to go again.

UnusuallyLargeRobin wrote:Have just been reading that 2 more of the major wing makers Ozone and Ensis are coming out with windows in their next versions. Despite what contrarians are saying about extra weight, lack of shaping etc, seems like the realization of safety in crowded conditions and the ability to look without raising the wing prior to transitions/tricks is the overall benefit. So that leaves only F-One, Takoon, and some other small companies without windows.

Cabrinha Mantis wing now with or without window options
https://www.cabrinha.com/products/01-ma ... th-windows

Review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ_rl9i ... b_imp_woyt

New Naish S26 (v3) now being seen in the wild

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=citDCck ... e=emb_logo

https://vimeo.com/515243631

https://bigwinds.com/products/naish-s26-wing-surfer/

Looks like:
- power claims of riders using up to 1 size smaller than previously
- fewer handles
- Y straps/handle at front of strut
- tighter canopy(?) less trailing edge flutter?
- slightly large LE in middle(?)
- smaller windows
- more dihedral for better drifting

Some German spec sheets for you to ponder
https://www.kailua-sports.de/2021/02/18 ... ers-guide/

Regarding Y handles; I use them quite a bit and wonder why some companies don't include them (other than weight savings?). Going upwind overpowered they really help settle the wing and allow you to bleed excess power a little easier than the strut handles alone. They also allow you to change the muscles used in gripping to give some different ergonomic options. Diameter seems important for the Y grips as well. Too small in diameter feels more fatiguing. Less leech flutter and leading edge stability are traits I want in my next wings without compromising on drift. The Konrad wings drift like nothing else I've tried so far but seem happier in their power range. The Armstrong wings are incredibly stiff, stable and powerful, but are heavier feeling and want to drive forward all the time. A mix between the Konrad and Armstrong feelings would be ideal. Maybe the new Ozone Wasp will be closer to this? The new Naish looks good

Props to everybody out there. It is sigifigantly more difficult in cold conditions. I was totally confident in Baja but i feel like a complete beginner back here.Can't wait to join you guys soon...still can't hold onto that wing for more than half an hour in the cold...mexico has made me soft. I guess I need to go train with superdave for a bit
Pretty stoked for some double digit sessions though. Ross bay swell is looking juicy and Klover point has some mega voodoo that could be fun once I can hold onto the damn wing!

Whiffin Spit session yesterday 4-5:30 highlights the wing's potential. I have tried to kite in my backyard spot a dozen times over past 10 years, but only succeeded a few times, with lots of rig-and-don't-launch, swims, and nearly killed myself at least once. The place is so gusty and variable and shadowed, it is just not great for kiting. It took me years to get into my thick and stubborn head why people don't kite in this awesome spot. ;-)

But winging: you can slowly knee board out to the wind line. Holes you wait, gusts you hang on, doable! Also with quick rigging, I can be in the water in under 10 mins from home, meaning possible to sneak in a short session around work obligations.

The swells stand up pretty nice outside, there's some voodoo in the spit opening too, I suspect where an outgoing current hits the windswell and jacks it up....still TBD.

Only negative...when you're way outside the bay, the downwind catchment is really REALLY bad if something goes wrong. Best case would be downwind to the east sooke coastline. Worst case would be getting caught in outgoing current, missing Possession Point and ending up along east sooke park coastline. That's an outside risk...but solo at dusk, these are questions that pop into my mind and keep me closer to shore, even if wind and swells aren't quite as good. :-)

juandesooka wrote:...Only negative...when you're way outside the bay, the downwind catchment is really REALLY bad if something goes wrong. Best case would be downwind to the east sooke coastline. Worst case would be getting caught in outgoing current, missing Possession Point and ending up along east sooke park coastline. That's an outside risk...but solo at dusk, these are questions that pop into my mind and keep me closer to shore, even if wind and swells aren't quite as good. :-)

And those are really good things to ask yourself Juan and seriously think about and consider. I know you are very conscious of risks. What we do is hopefully calculated risk management, and to err on the conservative side especially in winter with limited daylight and nasty conditions should always take precedent. With so many new wingers coming on board and many new to wind sport too, we should always be pushing the "safety first" messages, know your limitations, realize that others may have many more hours/experience and that's why it looks easy (when it's NOT). It all goes bad and dark fast. Would hate to have anything bad happen on the water to anyone in our wind community! Let's keep it safe and happy so we can meet back at the beach day after day doing what we love.

Winter Sailing-Are We Prepared link
https://bigwavedave.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 8&start=45

UnusuallyLargeRobin wrote: And those are really good things to ask yourself Juan and seriously think about and consider. I know you are very conscious of risks. What we do is hopefully calculated risk management, and to err on the conservative side especially in winter with limited daylight and nasty conditions should always take precedent. With so many new wingers coming on board and many new to wind sport too, we should always be pushing the "safety first" messages, know your limitations, realize that others may have many more hours/experience and that's why it looks easy (when it's NOT). It all goes bad and dark fast. Would hate to have anything bad happen on the water to anyone in our wind community! Let's keep it safe and happy so we can meet back at the beach day after day doing what we love.

For sure....very much a factor at Ross Bay too, as once you're past the Hollywood Crescent point, the downwind catchment is Trial Island = coast guard rescue.

I consider winging to be much less risk than kiting or windsurfing. The main risk is wind dying, but you have a big floaty board to paddle out, will take some time but you'll get there (this may change if we all progress to sinkers). If you lost your wing, you can paddle.

If you lose your board, you're probably screwed, but at least you have a big colourful float to hang onto until rescue comes. There are a bunch of posts and discussions online about not using board leashes and the possiblility for body dragging with wing -- but the testing videos seem to be mixed results, like *maybe* you'll catch up to your board, maybe not. IMHO way too risky unless you're somewhere with an easy downwind catchment.

Anyways, a positive for both Ross Bay and Whiffin is a coast guard station a 5 minute boat ride away .... worst case, help is nearby and there's no shortage of concerned viewers to make the call. In contrast to some of our more remote spots where help is an hour away minimum, if anyone calls....you're basically on your own. For remote downwinders, people elsewhere are now commonly using apple watches with call capability as their safety net.

So who's up for a 10 mile point to IV downwinder on next SE Gale?

I think prone paddling a smaller wing board will be easier. Any size is easier and warmer than dragging windsurfing kit. Both safer than self rescue on a kite.

Alan Cadis is working with a sea anchor that deploys when you fall off. He figures its safer than having the board attached in a big wave. If I ever get to the point where I'm not falling more than a few times an hour I might give it a try. Maybe by then board designers will have integrated some sort of speed brake instead.

Interesting about the sea anchor. I've used them kayaking/kayak fishing and talked lots about their use for cruising keelboats. The more complex collapsible windsock-style I'd say foggetabatit. The windsurf sail acts as an anchor (until the booms catching the board end manage to balance it out of the water, then you are in trouble). A really simple bucket on a string is super effective, even a kids' sand bucket (readily available at the beach for those with quick fingers). With a stronger handle, a tether, and a velcro onto a waist harness I can see that working for this purpose.

He's using a sewn one that fits in some sort of bag on his belt then deploys if tugged on.

According to Wyatt brand manager at Slingshot, wings are out selling kites in Hawaii 30 to 1 at the moment!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgELM_T ... e=emb_logo

Armstrong line up review for those interested:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3sw0vD1Yps

Nice to see Boujmaa winging!



https://www.instagram.com/p/CL2BN6UHayh ... hare_sheet