Wingfoiling

[nanmoo]

Ok I am going to eat a few of my previous thoughts and words here.

First some background I think is pertinent;

Competent windsurfer and kitesurfer, prior to session 1 I had Kitefoiled 7 sessions, windsurfed foiled for 15 minutes and tried Wingdinging for about 15 minutes in sub-par conditions last August on borrowed gear.

Rigged up a 1600 MFC foil on my FrankenSUP II (91L Starboard Pro surf sup with Martyman Foil box) and pumped up a mint Airush 5m Wing at Nimpkish on Saturday. Maybe 15 knots, I don't think anyone was really out yet. Wasn't expecting much. Pushed off right at the campo, hopped on my knees to the windline, easy stand up to feet and then popped onto the foil and cruised across the lake in relative comfort. WTF? The Foil part felt like kite foiling which I was familiar enough with. The Wing felt just like windsurfing which I was also familiar with. Turned around a came back. Blasted upwind, downwind, whereever really. Within 30 minutes I was gybing with touchdowns both ways maybe up to 50% of the time and after a little longer I foiled through a couple on my good side maybe just briefly touching after the turn to toe side on the foot switch (can you ride these toeside? I wasn't sure so I didn't try). Found some lake swell and dropped off one hand to figure out what this thing was all about and to my surprise I was sometimes connecting one swell into another with some pumping here and there. Passed it off to Bamfield Dave and then Tempy who were both upwind as well nearly right away. Hmmm... Now we are on to something.

By Day 2 things were getting super comfy after day 1 and only maybe 2 or so hours total Wingdinging TOW. Picking up swell rides that were lasting damn near 10 seconds when things really lined up. So after teaching a few more people I figured I'd try my upcycled ~70L FrankenSUP I with Martyman Foilbox (Same 91L Starboard Pro Surf SUP design but with 1.5 feet cut out and put back together). This sucker was a lot more work to get going on, but we are talking it took 10 seconds to get going instead of 2 or 3, and not helped at all because the deck pad was totally in the wrong spot so I was sliding all over poorly waxed deck way further forward then I expected to be. More of the same but a bit more manuerable and much more finicky with foot position. Did that for a bit and then handed it off again to Dave. Since it was on the same foil both Dave and I concluded the 91L was just a lot more fun with very little penalty on maneuverablity as it was just soooo easy. I'm pretty sure a properly designed stubby and wide board around 75L would be the ticket but both of these worked just fine. Basically if you took all the volume of the FrankenSUP I and put it in the right places.

OK so my conclusions.

- Yeah it's fun.
- If you know how to windsurf it's easy to learn.
- If you know how to Kitefoil it it's easy to learn.
-If you know how to windsurf and either kitefoil or windsurf foil it is DAMN easy to learn.
- If you don't know how to do any of that it is relatively hard to learn as the one person I tried to teach who had no kite or windsurf experience really struggled more than the rest.
- It's not fast, but it is flowy.
- You are not sending it.
- You can launch from stupid spots and swim in to whereever without hassle or worry.
- It's more work than kiting but less than windsurfing even in the harness. I think a harness of some sort would be really helpful when under or overpowered as it works your hands more than your arms.
- On the 70L board you will be kinda screwed though if the wind dies and you are a long swim from home.
- I don't see it replacing kiting at all except in the most particular of places or conditions. Like big ocean swell with not enough wind to kite surf and too much wind to surf-surf or offshore windswell or places like Renny where high tide causes endless fake and mound.
- It seems to make more sense than Windsurf foiling as there is a lot less gear.

Basically it seems like another fun option to add to the quiver to compete with your other stuff. The honeymoon stage is always max stoke so it will be interesting to see where it leads. I suspect some days it might seem more fun and other days other options will.

Day 1


Day 2

[Tsawwassen]

Basically it seems like another fun option to add to the quiver to compete with your other stuff.

Nice one Tony! Looks fun, where did you get the wing?

[MartyD]

If anyone is looking I am an Ozone dealer and have Wasps in stock. 3m, 4m, 5m and 6m. 1 hr intro lesson with purchase! Wasp 2.0 will be available in October.
Been having some pretty sick session on the 4m and 1300cm wing. I think 25+kn and I will be able to bust out the 3m! Can't wait to ride one of these in some groundswell!

[nanmoo]

Basically it seems like another fun option to add to the quiver to compete with your other stuff.

Nice one Tony! Looks fun, where did you get the wing?

My neighbour Kristian lent it to me. He works for Starboard/Airush and can get you one if you're interested. They are a bit chunkier with bigger tubes and have more shape than the Ozones plus have a window. Compared to the other two people winging this weekend who were on 5m Ozones it seemed to have better bottom end but it's hard to know for sure since the foil and pilot also play a large role.

[winddoctor]

Basically it seems like another fun option to add to the quiver to compete with your other stuff. The honeymoon stage is always max stoke so it will be interesting to see where it leads. I suspect some days it might seem more fun and other days other options will.[/img]

100%.

I've wondered exactly the same regarding the honeymoon stage. I really think that for experienced windsurfers and kiters who like waves, winging is purely a delivery method for eventually surfing the foil and forgetting about the wing/putting it in neutral. For people new to wind sports, it offers similar stoke but faster progression than windsurfing/kiting, which may also kill stoke if the learning curve is steep but plateaus too quickly.

It's early days. The foils currently directly developed around the sport of winging are few and seem to be primarily high lift/low speed compared to WSng and kiting. This will change and winging soon will be "fast enough" at least. It'll specialize with wings/foils for speed, freestyle and waves (sound familiar?).

While it doesn't seem like a great "sending device", and seems more of a flow-type sport it's not stopped riders from doing high raleys, air 360s, and backflips. The sport is so new, it's nearly like looking at the original Windsurfer One Design for the first time and thinking "it looks sort of fun but it's not very fast and it'll be impossible to get air on it". Look at where Pros have evolved the sport now.

Riding the foil once on a swell, even a small one, is incredibly addictive. This is where my mind returns every time I think about winging and the nerdy/technical aspects of how the foil operates are fascinating to me. Basically it's cool to start something new as a beginner that just so happens to complement this other cool stuff we get to do on the water. Just choose the right tool for the day.

[UnusuallyLargeRobin]

if you're still sitting on the fence, here's more wing stoke

www.sailingworld.com/story/racing/rise-of-wing-sailing/

[UnusuallyLargeRobin]

OK, so this is a really cool video for many reasons. The guy is big - 88kg (dry, maybe more after his burger and fries, he says ). He's on a very small board (70 lt) in very low wind (<8kn maybe??), and he shows us the "cork pump" technique to get flying. Basically, instead of porpoising the board pumping, you flat pump the whole board to submerge it (flat), allow it to "pop" back up and fly! Got to try this, in those light moments when struggling to fly!
The other really cool thing, is he's using Gong's 4'11 HIPE inflatable wing board (70 lt), again proving the board size is irrelevant if you can get it flying, and are comfortable with being on it. It does look like a really great inflatable regardless!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El19K0L ... tion=share

[Tsawwassen]

if you're still sitting on the fence, here's more wing stoke

www.sailingworld.com/story/racing/rise-of-wing-sailing/

I showed my kids this video during the summer and they we both like, "I want to do that"!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z97QFwEngzY[/youtube]

OK, so this is a really cool video for many reasons. The guy is big - 88kg (

Sweet, I really like those inflatables and that 9M wing looks like it would be awesome for light winds.

[nanmoo]

OK, so this is a really cool video for many reasons. The guy is big - 88kg (dry, maybe more after his burger and fries, he says ). He's on a very small board (70 lt) in very low wind (<8kn maybe??), and he shows us the "cork pump" technique to get flying. Basically, instead of porpoising the board pumping, you flat pump the whole board to submerge it (flat), allow it to "pop" back up and fly! Got to try this, in those light moments when struggling to fly!
The other really cool thing, is he's using Gong's 4'11 HIPE inflatable wing board (70 lt), again proving the board size is irrelevant if you can get it flying, and are comfortable with being on it. It does look like a really great inflatable regardless!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El19K0L ... tion=share

The only penalty I found between 70L and 90L was more fuckery to get to your feet. After that it was irrelevant. In lighter winds getting to my feet would've been easier too.

[Tsawwassen]

They are a bit chunkier with bigger tubes and have more shape than the Ozones plus have a window.

I noticed they were a little chunkier. I was going to ask about the window, that seems like something you would want to have? Have you tried one without?

[winddoctor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsA1xyv ... e=youtu.be

I'm so confused!

[juandesooka]

They are a bit chunkier with bigger tubes and have more shape than the Ozones plus have a window.

I noticed they were a little chunkier. I was going to ask about the window, that seems like something you would want to have? Have you tried one without?

Seems to be some different opinions on windows. Pros are visibility....I've not yet used a wing with windows but in crowd situations or hazards downwind it would help. The blind spot downwind is significant, though not a factor in most situations

Cons...some reports they are in wrong spots. Others that the material is the weak spot on the wing, will fail first. Or that it'll get creased when rolling up. Etc

There is a naish video where he says he changed his mind and now builds them in

[smartang]

Looks like ozone is experimenting with windows too.

https://www.facebook.com/kai.lenny/vide ... 892022827/

[nanmoo]

The window is great for showing you who you just ran over unless you are moving the wing forward to deliberately get a look. So I can't see a reason not to have one but also having one doesn't suddenly improve things dramatically. I can't see how they can fix this issue as on any wind the big leading edge is really where you want to be looking and it is smack dab in the way.

[juandesooka]

On a normal cross-wind track, I find it is pretty easy to just lift the wing a little to see what's in front of you. As well, you are usually flying it at a 45 degree angle, more above your head or behind rather than in front of you (and that's a newbie error, flying it low and in front, like it's a windsurf sail....people who complain about constantly dipping the wingtip, that's likely the issue).

Where the visibility issues come in for me is when someone or something approaches from downwind -- like in the boat channel (close calls with boats) or when gybing in waves, when there are surfers or crab pots or kelp downwind. As you say, unless you lift the wing overhead to peek under, you don't know they are there until right on top. I think the windows would help with that....even if just situational awareness, like you how are regularly glancing in mirrors while driving, just to have a sense of what's going on. The boat passing me at 15-20mph, unseen until they blared its horn from 20m away, scared the bejeesus out of me!

The complainers online say is the weak points where wings will fail. Brittle material will crack. Stiches won't hold, etc. With pretty much all windsurf sails having windows, I'd think there's lots of experience in how to build these in durably. I'd prefer to have them than not, but for now, I will love the ones I'm with.