Wingfoiling Progression

[UnusuallyLargeRobin]

Ok, so after 2 hours yesterday my arms were toast. I am thinking of getting a waist harness to ease the load and be able to crank upwind more so I can do more downwind runs without worrying about losing too much ground. ...

I just replied to a similar thread on standupzone "I do daily quick upper body workout so I can wing for hours with no harness. I do quick dumbbell workouts - 5 sets of 10 reps of: bicep curls; shoulder press (military press); and lateral raises. Takes no more than 10 minutes and has made arm/shoulder strength a non-issue and I can wing for 3+ hours (with short breaks). I originally started this for winging, I think it really helps and it has become side benefit of just generally being much stronger/fitter. I absolutely loath gym work, but with the short 10 minute work out and motivational goal of "being fit to wing", it works for me!"

That being said, working on switch so you don't bake one side is a definite advantage! So yes, do that and you'll have many other wing riding benefits.

I have tried/used a simple harness hook onto the waist belt. I think you would find that's all you need if you're already using a waist leash for the board. Lots of other wingers on the web use similar setups. Consensus is you don't need or want a bar and full on harness. For example:
https://bigwinds.com/products/dakine-op ... ding-hook/

[superdave]

Tucker does a great review on harness lines here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHL8AycgDTc

I think I have some old kite pig tails like he uses if you want to make your own. PM me.

Also, make sure to use a seven stance shoulders back - that way you can straighten your front arm and sheet as necessary with the rear while maintaining the center of effort over the mid line of the board. This greatly reduces arm fatigue compared to a more squared up stance with totally bent elbows. Tucker uses a good stance and fairly straight arms when in the harness.

[grantmac]

Tucker does a great review on harness lines here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHL8AycgDTc

His lines are very wide and floppy with them biased forward (he rides one handed by dropping the front). I would have thought that a stiffer mono line biased to the rear would be better.

[UnusuallyLargeRobin]

Tucker does a great review on harness lines here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHL8AycgDTc

His lines are very wide and floppy with them biased forward (he rides one handed by dropping the front). I would have thought that a stiffer mono line biased to the rear would be better.

Grant, you'd probably hate the floppy FOne lines, i got them i did, could see you being more of a windsurf line lover. Severne and Duotone make lines that fully open up so you can install them onto a handle or loop, some others you can't open up fully ..that is, you can only slide them over a boom end...something you can't do on a wing strut!

[grantmac]

I'll probably just tie some lines on that I make. Or use a mono windsurfing line if i can find one long enough. His lines appear really long but my back hand is usually pretty close to my body so hard to know.

Setups are definitely all over the place, there is no obviously correct setup yet.

[Mrnorthsouth]

Thanks everyone for the ideas. I talked to Tucker and he said they are developing a wing specific harness with a major brand for release this spring. I have a waist leash as well so may try it with that hook while I wait.

[slake]

Hi,

I live north of Victoria. Hope to get some wing foil gear and would like some advice. Never foiled but kite and SUP. I've windsurfed many years ago and got to a level of comfortably planning, in the harness, in the straps, but never could carve gybe (although I tried). Surf some but, of all the mentioned water sports, it is my weakest.

Realize that equipment is a challenge to come by but if I find availability trying to choose between a Fanatic Sky Wing and Armstrong Wing Foil Sup. Dilemma is I'm 6'2" and 83 kg (without a wetsuit) and not sure if I go with the biggest boards or step down. Options on the former are 5'8" 110 L or 6'0" 130 L and the latter 5'11" 99 L or 6'6" 130 L. Reading this forum tells me I'd probably should go for either 130 L board but on Armstrong's site their guide suggests the 5'11". A little worried it is too small to start. I plan to take whatever rig I get and foil behind a boat until I have some foiling skills. Not sure if that has any impact on the progression into wing foiling, or not (ie. does getting tow experience allow one to step down in board size? or don't even think about it.).

Happy for the advice of experience from this forum.

Thanks

[UnusuallyLargeRobin]

...trying to choose between a Fanatic Sky Wing and Armstrong Wing Foil Sup. Dilemma is I'm 6'2" and 83 kg (without a wetsuit) and not sure if I go with the biggest boards or step down. Options on the former are 5'8" 110 L or 6'0" 130 L and the latter 5'11" 99 L or 6'6" 130 L. Reading this forum tells me I'd probably should go for either 130 L board but on Armstrong's site their guide suggests the 5'11".

Hey Slake welcome to the forum. My advice is to go for the shortest board with the max volume that gives you +10-40 litres over your weight, so for you 92-120 litre(ish). If you have board skills, you'll understand balance around the centerline, heel/toe and front/back foot weighting already. Yes, it will seem short/small at first but you'll quickly progress and get comfortable. The 5'8 - 110 or the 5'11-99 would be the call. If you can get some tow foil experience, it tends to be helpful to most people, but you can just go for it with a wing too. It is good to go out in little to no wind the very first time just to get a sense of balance on the board, but don't expect to fly. Everyone underestimates the wind strength that they need to first get wingfoiling. As a noob you at 82kg really need about 20+knots,5+m wing, and a 1700-2000cm2 foil to get the motive power to get foiling as you'll be inefficient and flailing about. Of course everyone wants to go out in those nice gentle days to learn, but that will be very difficult to get flying on foil and involve a lot of frustrated, exhausting pumping for first timers. Good luck with your winging, all the v2 gear is making it so much better and easier(?)! See you on the water.

[grantmac]

More than anything else you need flat water to learn. The smaller the board the flatter you need at first.

[redbaron]

...trying to choose between a Fanatic Sky Wing and Armstrong Wing Foil Sup. Dilemma is I'm 6'2" and 83 kg (without a wetsuit) and not sure if I go with the biggest boards or step down. Options on the former are 5'8" 110 L or 6'0" 130 L and the latter 5'11" 99 L or 6'6" 130 L. Reading this forum tells me I'd probably should go for either 130 L board but on Armstrong's site their guide suggests the 5'11".

Hey Slake welcome to the forum. My advice is to go for the shortest board with the max volume that gives you +10-40 litres over your weight, so for you 92-120 litre(ish).

Realize that equipment is a challenge to come by

Have you checked out the Quatro Wing Drifter? They are a bit shorter with a good amount of volume for their size. They have proven to be one of the more sought after foil boards. I would say the 5'8" 115L would be the right call for your size. We have them in stock!

[slake]

Thanks for all the feedback already.

I spoke to an Armstrong dealer who suggested it would be a struggle learning with their 99 L board (Wing Foil SUP 511). Adding a wet wetsuit, helmet, and an impact vest (maybe) might push me closer to 87 kg or so. He suggested it might be better to go with a bigger board to start. If I really need to downsize I would guess others will be getting into it and it would be something to possibly sell, if at all needed.

I notice the Armstrong boards are more expensive than others. Are they better for any reason? Certainly have heard good things about their foils. Same person suggesting the 6'6" board didn't seem bothered I was interested in the HS1850 Foil Kit (listed as Intermediate/Advanced/Expert on Armstrong's foil chart). In fact he suggested getting the 85 cm mast out of the gate with that board (Wing Foil SUP 66), especially if I'm starting on a lake and getting some tow time behind a boat to learn to foil. Seems a bit odd from what I've read but also note people, on this very thread, quickly want to increase their mast length. Is 85 cm too much out of the gate?

I had not checked out the Quatro Wing Drifter but will now that you mention it, thank you.

Speaking of gear is there a centralized source of shops on this site? I last bought kites many years ago in the US, when I was there.

Would be nice to buy from a local island dealer, if possible. The ones I'm aware of are:
Dirty Mermaid
Strong Kiteboarding
Elevation Kiteboarding

Off Island I find:
Kitesource (Calgary)
Silent Sports (Toronto)
MACKite (Michigan)

Are recommendations allowed on these forums? I'd assume all those businesses are reputable and good to deal with, and the Island ones are on this forum. Any other places people like to buy gear from?

Anyone out there played around on an Echo? Any general consensus about riding with, or without, a boom? Found this guy, Piros, who says he's ridden both Duotone's 5 m in 8-30 kts. Although he's showing the Unit in these posts, his preference is the boom (ie. Echo), https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sta ... 021?page=1. Warning: if you click on the first video in those posts you will hear Motley Crue. If you don't want to hear it, turn off your speakers.

[winddoctor]

Regarding the Armstrong gear; it's expensive, but, like many nice things, worth the money. I've learned on the 1850HS kit on a 72 mast. I've now ordered an 85 as well. The 1850 is a killer foil with amazing range. You could conceivably only run that wing if pushed and won't outgrow it. I've been learning surf foiling on that wing as well. If I was only winging, I'd go straight to the 85 mast with the Army kit. A buddy of mine just ordered the Quatro Wing Drifter 115 and 1850/85 kit as well. You'll have a small learning curve to go through but you won't know any better and will adjust immediately and will appreciate the extra ride height/buffer from over-foiling. I can't tell you how often I've been frustrated with breaching the 72 mast in bigger swell or in high height turns. 85 is the sweet spot for winging. Armstrong boards are beautiful, high end pieces of kit. Their wings are well executed as you'd expect too.

Dirty Mermaid is great on the Island and Quickwater Canada in Richmond (talk to Paul) is the go for Armstrong gear.

Oh, and welcome! 🤙

[slake]

Thanks a bundle for the information.

I searched around here but could not get much info on the following:
1) do people like having the boom on the Echo? Seems it might be easier not to get a hand in a loop/less need to focus on the wing.
2) why does only Duotone seem to do a full boom? Patent? Or do other manufacturers just deem it as adding complication/weight to the rig (ie. there is no need for it)?

[UnusuallyLargeRobin]

Booms seem to be a preference thing. Popular with ex-windsurfers because it's a boom! or because you tried it/learnt on one and liked it. Never tried them, never wanted too. One more thing to screw around with, pack, setup. Don't think there is anyone local with the Duotone Echo (boom), Landon has the Duotone Unit (handles). I don't think grabbing a handle vs grabbing a boom is an issue after a few tries of either.
Cons:
- 1 more piece of equipment to carry around, setup, pack up
- apparently you need a longer boom for the very large sizes(?)
- a hard thing to land on, smack your face, whatever
- extra weight
- v1's supposedly didn't flag out very well, and dropped tail which some claim was due to boom/weight
- i think it's patented
Pros:
- familiar look and feel if you're an ex windsurfer
- unlimited hand positions
- supposedly a stiffer, more direct drive feel
- able to tune the draft via boom tensioning

[slake]

Regarding the HS1850 Foil Kit asides mast change I assume no one changed the recommended setup of TC60 fuselage and HS232 tail wing. Is that correct? Armstrong shows a few other options for the kit on their website but figure just go with the recommended setup, with possible mast length change.